Posted by: Wei Yu

In my Facebook group "Dharma Connection" there happens to be many Dzogchen practitioners around so I posted this as it may interest them as I think it may also interest you as a reader. I've also posted some comments by Thusness below. (note: Thusness is not a Dzogchen practitioner so whatever he said need not be indicative of Dzogchen, just the practice and experience between us)
Rainbow Body Might Not Be What You Think It Is!

Since there's lots of Dzogchen practitioners, thought it might be interesting to share this piece of info.

Malcolm: "KDL went though all four visions to the end. He told me this personally. Not only me, but others. He did realize rainbow body. Rainbow body, in Dzogchen, does not mean that your body disappears. This is a huge misconception....it is stupidly simple -- once you reach the end of the fourth vision, everything is a display of the five lights, as it is put in the classical text earth, rocks, mountains and cliffs vanish and instead one sees only the five pure lights.....In other words, rainbow body in essence is actually a realization...."

...

"No, but I have heard (from ChNN among others) that the disappearance of the body is not necessarily a sign of the body of light.

Hindus also gain control over the four elements, also Arhats can gain control over the four elements. Gaining control over the four elements is mundane siddhi, it is not excellent siddhi, nor is it reserved for Vajrayana and Dzogchen people. However, if someone has not studied in detail, they might think that many mundane  siddhis are profound. So yes, what I am telling you is that I do not consider the so called rainbow body to much more than a display of mundane siddhi to create faith.

I am glad you have faith in the teachings, but as I said, I do not derive my faith in the teachings through illusions and phantasmagoria.

N"

....

p.s. with regards to KDL, who is also Malcolm's teacher (he passed away in 2006) and Malcolm has said before that KDL is a fully awakened Buddha,

http://tibetanaltar.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/terton-kunzang-dechen-lingpa-moving.html

"Later when Rinpoche was relaxing in a lawn chair, he said to a few students gathered around him: "You don't realize this, but I am actually Guru Rinpoche and you are his twenty-five disciples. I have reached the stage of exhaustion of phenomena (cho nyi zepa). In truth there is for me no form, no sensation, no perception, no karmic formation, no consciousness, no form, no smell, no sense consciousness or object of sense consciousness and so forth; there is no self or other and no distinction of 'Buddhas' and 'sentient beings'; everything remains in the naturally perfect state of pure equality. From the depths of my heart I wish there were some way you could all be made to understand the truth in this, but you do not see it."

Then Rinpoche went silent and tears fell from his eyes."

Also, maybe not many of you here knows this - Malcolm (Loppon Namdrol) was asked to teach Dzogchen by KDL but he refused.

Thusness said to me:

"As I suspected (thumbs up) I mean the rainbow body. That can only be done after realization of twofold emptiness and intensity of luminosity into the three states (waking, dreaming, deep sleep)... you are doing pretty well. The integration has been progressing well of the non-dual bliss into your deep sleep state, in view of the short period after your realization of anatta. The inner core must completely disappear and the intensity of luminosity must heighten... Sensations will become transparent and crystal sharp clear.

At present the core center is gone... You write too much and have too little rest. Your mind must have enough time to rest in non-conceptuality of the 6 entries and exits. Otherwise it will not be easy for you to penetrate further. After realizing the twofold emptying there is no more boundaries between mind, appearances and apparent objects and experience becomes seamless... All is mind or this integrated activity. Then we should actualize and integrate this realization.

In touching, both subject and object are both emptied and deconstructed into a single activity of touch and the intensity of luminous clarity must be strong... is it strong now? Or just like passing thoughts with no intensity.
Now penetration of the 3 states is only supported by the strength of your view and realization, not by the intensity of your non-conceptual experience.

"In essence rainbow body is a realization..." Maybe actualization of realization (would be better), in essence it is an actualized state."


my comment: Dzogchen practitioners use the term 'Realization' differently than I and Thusness, 'Realization' could mean something like full actualization or Buddhahood for them and not just an initial insight/recognition/experience.

Update:

Someone wrote:

"I believe Malcolm Smith, Many texts state the "physical body reverts to the essence of the elements as rainbow light and disapears." Also there is a great deal of writing by many such as Longchenpa that describe the difference between the "vanishment of the physical body" between trekchod, rainbow body as "jalus" and "phowa chenpo" the Great Transfer. This is the goofiest of Malcolm's posts that I have ever read... Am I missing something?"

Malcolm replied:

"
Rainbow body where the body shrinks and disappears is a sign of incompletely finishing the fourth vision in this life."
5 Responses
  1. That's all non-sense, I don't see anything that makes sense to me through my experience of meditation and increasing realization of my Rainbow nature of the physical.

    The Rainbow Body can be achieved through natural meditation and it is only the Physical Body becoming what it should be without all the negative shit and blocking around the Chakras.

    Once All Chakras are secured and quite open, then your Rainbow Nature will increase in its natural obviousness. Then you will get a body made of rainbow Light which is extremely powerful and blissful.

    I don't believe a bit about this guy being Guru Rinpoche and if he is, then I don't understand him and I would lose respect for him but I feel Guru Rinpoche much smarter than these words.

    The Soul is Consciousness, it is the Individual, how can you say "no consciousness"?

    The Soul is with us forever, it is us as our individual then the Body can be with us forever too as its purest form which is the Rainbow Body. So the Soul will have its greatest desire: to enjoy a body forever, to have Life with forever and Death... bye bye.

    My 2 cents, good luck folks.


  2. Hi Salomon,

    First of all, rainbow body in Dzogchen may not be what you have in mind.

    Secondly it seems that you are speaking from the I AM insight, but not yet the empty nature of Presence. "No consciousness" is a central Buddhist teaching taught in Heart Sutra. It does not mean there is no consciousness in the sense of being inert or insentient, but that consciousness is empty of self.

    See http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html


  3. Rainbow Body is rainbow body, no matter what kind of ways this is achieved.

    But if by rainbow body, you mean something else that is not Rainbow body then, yes this is not the same thing :p

    Which is possible by the way but I am sure that those who achieve the Rainbow Body through techniques are smart ones who rely on their own insights and intelligence with some help of course but not only.

    My achievement is not the same way, it is through natural watchfulness and insights.

    The Consciousness Empty of self means nothing as self is consciousnss, they are the same thing.

    But I know what you mean by No Consciousness and it is indeed possible and experienced here, this is a kind of beyond the individual that is completely mysterious and basic that creates and fuel the Soul or Individual.

    But the Individual is not lost, this mysterious experience ground of no individual is just a bonus ground of stability and precious knowing that I consider it as a special part of God's body this is our own and really what we are but what it would be experience exactly if the individual comes to disappear, no way to know and this will never happen as the Individual has been created and what has been created can't be uncreated.

    We will never lose our individuality that is not Ego. Ego is just a false image that the individual wear as a mask.


  4. Salomon Ghebrey,

    What you described is different from what Dzogchen calls Rainbow Body. If you're interested in Dzogchen, do look into books like "Crystal and the Way of Light" by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. He also gives free direct transmission and teachings over webcast (for free).

    You said: "The Consciousness Empty of self means nothing as self is consciousnss, they are the same thing."


    First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal).

    To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically

    You said: "But I know what you mean by No Consciousness and it is indeed possible and experienced here, this is a kind of beyond the individual that is completely mysterious and basic that creates and fuel the Soul or Individual.

    But the Individual is not lost, this mysterious experience ground of no individual is just a bonus ground of stability and precious knowing that I consider it as a special part of God's body this is our own and really what we are but what it would be experience exactly if the individual comes to disappear, no way to know and this will never happen as the Individual has been created and what has been created can't be uncreated.

    We will never lose our individuality that is not Ego. Ego is just a false image that the individual wear as a mask."

    (Continued in next reply)


  5. You are talking about impersonality here. This is one of the four aspects to deepen one's experience in the I AM phase. As I wrote in my e-book in this article:

    http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/experience-realization-view-practice.html

    "...Also, in my experience the I AM experience after the initial realization is tainted with a slight sense of personality and locality. That is, even though the mind knows how to experience Presence beyond all concepts, the mind still cannot separate Presence from that slight and subtle sense of personality. It wasn’t until about two months after the realization, that sense of a localized witness completely dissolved into a non-localized, impersonal space of witnessing-awareness-presence (but still dualistic and 'background'). At this level, the I AM is separated from Personality, and it is seen as if everything and everyone in the world share the same source or same space, like if a vase breaks, the air inside the vase completely merges with the air of the entire environment such that there is no sense of a division between an 'inside space' or an 'outside space', such that everything shares the same space, as an analogy of all-pervading presence. Because of the dissolving of personal construct, it seems that myself and the chair and the dog equally 'shares' the same space, the same source, the same substance of consciousness. Actually it is not that one "merges", but one Realizes that one IS the infinite self and not a small enclosed self. This all-pervading presence, though stripped of any sense of a locality or a sense of personality, still pertains to the thought level (non-conceptual thought). One does not experience the same 'taste' of luminous-presence in the other sense doors - like sight, sound, smell, taste, touch. Nevertheless, if this experience of 'all-pervading presence' is sustained, it can lead to an oceanic samadhi experience. As impersonality matures one feels like everything including oneself is expressed by a higher source, a higher power, an impersonal living force or intelligence.

    p.s. (update) Just one day after writing this chapter, I found a book by the same name as mine, 'Who am I?' by Pandit Shriram Sharma Archaya. He distinguishes the Soul, the Inner Self/the Inner Witness/the 'Nucleus of your World', from the Universal Self or the Omnipresent Supreme Being which is the supreme source of even that Inner Self and everything else in the world. He says that one has to realise the Inner Self first before realizing the unity or oneness of that Inner Self with that Universal Self, Atman=Brahman.
    This is precisely what I'm talking about - the difference between the initial experience and realization of I AM (as the inner Self), then the maturation into the Universal I AM, which is the aspect of impersonality. This is the difference between Thusness Stage 1 and 2. In the Universal I AM, it is just this "unified field" in which "everything belongs to everyone", and that in this phase "A Yogi is one whose individuality has been consciously united (merged) with the cosmic Self." Everything and everyone is impersonally expressed and lived by this pervasive source, as stated by him, "particles of universally pervasive intelligence and energy, cosmic consciousness [Chetna] and life, are activating infinite systems, forms and forces of this cosmos.""

    (Note: even this experience of impersonality is not the end, there are further phases of insights as you can read on from there)