Posted by: Soh
  • Taken from Dharma Connection

  • David Vardy
  • David Vardy Fluidity, Illusion-like spaciousness, follows the realization that only pure functioning is what's happening. Knowing this verbing without object or subject eliminates the tendency towards reification. Singular functioning without agent, when realized with absolute conviction, is literally mind blowing. There are no longer 'things' which last, no source, no background. The ground has literally dropped out along with any question of how this might be happening or not happening. The brilliance of suchness lies in the fact it doesn't last.
  • John Tan
  • John Tan Hi David,

    Not only that it does not last and is insubstantial but it is non-arisen.


    Anatta sees through the self (background) and with that freedom from the layer that obscures, everything becomes magnificently clear and real.

    However when we attempt to further deconstruct the foreground appearance, for example, looking clearly at a red flower, where is this "redness" of the flower?

    Outside? Inside? My consciousness or Soh's consciousness or dog's consciousness?

    So clear, vivid and undeniable yet was never truly there. How does what that was "never truly there" disappear?

    Likewise for sound. Hit a bell - Tingsss..non-dually clear and undeniable. Where is this crystal clear sound? Outside? Inside? Soh's consciousness, Albert's consciousness, dog's consciousness? No one sentient being hears the same "tingsss"...

    Look at everything around...so vivid and lurid...touch anything...so solid and undeniable...when seen with DO, every intrinsic characteristic can never be found despite being fully present!

    Same applies to sensations, colors, shapes, scent, sound, thoughts...all experiences r like that...empty and non-arising.

    So when background self is negated, foreground appearances become magnificently real, it does not become illusion-like.

    What is the actual taste of negating "A" from the "(inherent) existence" of A?

    Only when foreground appearances r negated of it's existence, then experience becomes illusion-like...it cannot be otherwise. For everything clearly appears but when seen with the eyes of dependent arising, it is never truly there...it is just illusion-like (not that it wants to b named that way) :P

    Seeing dependent arising is amazing!
    Whatever appears is non-arisen; indestructible by being not real and phenomena links without being "connected".
    Everything simply turns magic!

    Good night!
  • David Vardy
  • David Vardy Beautifully said John. Thank you.
  • Neony Karby
  • Neony Karby "phenomena links without being "connected"."
    Please elaborate a little on this John Tan , as 'disjointed' is a word often used and smells a little of what you say here.
    Great thread.
  • Lisa Kahale
  • Lisa Kahale So perfect. Thanks for re-posting this, Soh Wei Yu.
  • Soh Wei Yu
  • Soh Wei Yu Hi Neony Karby I had a related conversation with John Tan last month:

    John Tan

    12/3, 12:55am
    John Tan

    Is this current thought free from the previous thought? Does the previous thought meet the current thought? Is this present thought completely free or completely determined by previous thought? U can understand "conditionality" by observing this, the nature of thoughts and nature of experience. Conditionality is neither determinism nor free will...it is the middle path, the "cause and effect" of Buddhism.
    John Tan
    12/3, 12:59am
    John Tan

    So don't look elsewhere, look directly into ur experience.
    Soh Wei Yu
    12/3, 1:20am
    Soh Wei Yu

    What is cause and effect with inherency? --> u mean without
    John Tan
    12/3, 1:20am
    John Tan

    Yeah

    If we continue to look for the carrying medium between 2 moment of thoughts, profound insight of anatta will not arise and non-locality will not dawn. Our mode of perception will be obscured by the inherent way of understanding things.
    Soh Wei Yu
    12/3, 1:29am
    Soh Wei Yu

    oic..

    its like listening to music... the previous note never 'caused' the current note... yet without the previous note the current note will not be played. its conditioned arising but without causal agent

    is that right?
    John Tan
    12/3, 1:38am
    John Tan

    Yes. Look into ur experience. It is directly pointing at the nature of experience.

    John Tan
    12/3, 10:45am
    John Tan

    When listening to music, the beautiful music is form from the flowing notes but each note when hit is already gone. How is the music heard? It is said that "music" is a convention designated in dependence on it parts -- the flowing notes. The "music" is empty and non-arising. The notes never really "meet" each other, nvr caused each other yet the current note depends on the previous to be played. So "conditionality" but not a causal agent having the inherent power to effect. What is this telling u abt designation, emptiness, conditionality and dependent arising? They r telling u the nature of experience, the nature of mind.
  • John Tan
  • John Tan Hi Neony,

    It is a practice that I do to integrate dependent arising (conceptual) and non-dual appearance (non-conceptual) to deepen my understanding of the nature of mind/experience. Just a casual blah out of a spur of interest.


    There is something special about seeing dependent arising and applying it to subject, object, action or connection between them…when analyzed, the object of investigation always disappear like a mystical cloud. A sense of wonder never fail to arise whenever what that is so intimately felt to exist when sought cannot be found.

    If we examine “the link” whether conventionally, conceptually or non-conceptually, it always turn fuzzy and blur….

    Like looking at the relationship of a father and son…no physical connection found but the bond is tight and “real”…

    Like long and short…light and darkness…linked but where exactly is the connection…

    Like previous thought and current thought…like sound that is heard by hitting a bell…

    If we examine layer by layer from non-conceptual hearing of a sound and its causal dependencies to the conventional relationship of a father and son…it is always like that…no true concrete solid connection can be established or found yet it is undeniably “linked”.

    We may think what has the mystical arising of sound and its causal dependencies or “tableness” dependent on its parts got to do with the relationship of a father and son…but if we look closely...it is actually the same taste.

    We go through again and again until the taste of dependent arising pervades one’s entire experience much like how dualistic and inherent mode of cognition invaded our mind stream. Eventually one begins to intuit the cause of grasping, contrivance and all artificialities is directly related to the seeing of essence in a very subtle way. Purge of seeing essence in subject, object, actions and connections, mind releases itself and experience turns magic, spontaneous and natural.

    Just a casual sharing. Thanks!
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