tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32259854539513308982024-03-19T16:47:42.231+08:00Awakening to Reality
This blog is about spiritual awakening, maps and stages, the blinding effects of our strong momentum/conditioning (karmic propensities), view, realization, experience, etc. If you're new here, I recommend going through the 'Must Reads' articles (see sidebar). For discussions you are welcome to join the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/">Awakening to Reality Facebook group</a>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.comBlogger1667110tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-32773977930812072682024-03-18T10:00:00.000+08:002024-03-19T01:34:50.923+08:00The Awakening to Reality Practice Guide and AtR Guide - abridged version<p>Hello! Welcome to the Awakening to Reality blog.</p>
<p>For all new to Awakening to Reality blog, I highly recommend reading the 'Must Read' articles on the right panel, such as </p>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html">"Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment"</a> (Available in multiple languages: AR, DA, DE, EN, ES, FR, HI, ID, IT, JA, KO, NE, PL, PT-BR, PT-PT, RU, TA, TH, VI, ZH) - Exploring a series of experiential awakenings and insights into the nature of pristine consciousness.
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html">"On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection"</a> (Available in multiple languages: AR, DA, DE, EN, ES, FR, HI, ID, IT, JA, KO, NE, PL, PT-BR, PT-PT, RU, TA, TH, VI, ZH) - Delving into the subject in more detail.</li></ul><p><br /></p><p>If you are interested in realizing and actualizing these insights, do read the following (free) e-books:</p>
<p>1) <b>The Awakening to Reality Practice Guide</b> by Nafis Rahman:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://app.box.com/s/zc0suu4dil01xbgirm2r0rmnzegxaitq">Download Guide (Version 1.1)</a></li>
<li>Update: AudioBook now available on <a href="https://soundcloud.com/soh-wei-yu/sets/the-awakening-to-reality">SoundCloud</a></li>
<li>Feedback: <b>"The shortened AtR guide is very good. It should lead one to anatta <i>(the experiential realization of no-self)</i> if they really go and read. Concise and direct." - Yin Ling</b></li>
<li>Download Links: <a href="https://app.box.com/s/zc0suu4dil01xbgirm2r0rmnzegxaitq">Word version</a> or <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8mmrllnn3kcnz1t46lgea/ATR-Practice-Guide-v1.1-new-version.docx?rlkey=nwmgorrg1yuq23h5mpqdrz9iy&dl=0">Mirror link</a></li>
<li><a href="https://app.box.com/s/trvc22802ey1apaess9tv1ccmgrzllwg">PDF version</a> or <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6tv4eyakbrky5k8d7o7xe/ATR-Practice-Guide-v1.1-new-version.pdf?rlkey=c07gi37sbijqhj62bk2d4s682&dl=0">Mirror link</a></li>
<li><a href="https://app.box.com/s/71ytv9rj99x657qto635wyrcxdp395uk">EPUB Version</a> or <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pdtduj3c5hzc67lxbvauk/ATR-Practice-Guide-v1.1-new-version.epub?rlkey=0hd6afxrp6ba4ggbh8k51i2s1&dl=0">Mirror link</a></li>
</ul><div><ul><li><b>Update:</b> Portuguese translation now available <a href="http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/08/translation-of-awakening-to-reality.html">here</a></li></ul></div><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhH_NLOdyDQkXDmSdrt31rB55GDiO2yBngWAc2JMjT3uBuhi6BmMYgdQPjfKqn_F2RXa_ug8W6KuNqcHTPy4nqFRJ8syBqXyqwIO3T7FA7Ju4NlYo-4oa__cDpdN6WQHhknxJxuvzXaSElRYDozXuW9uREazq2cP_P_Iu4KCHTUg572CCtbZa95-SB7/s940/NewAbridged.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhH_NLOdyDQkXDmSdrt31rB55GDiO2yBngWAc2JMjT3uBuhi6BmMYgdQPjfKqn_F2RXa_ug8W6KuNqcHTPy4nqFRJ8syBqXyqwIO3T7FA7Ju4NlYo-4oa__cDpdN6WQHhknxJxuvzXaSElRYDozXuW9uREazq2cP_P_Iu4KCHTUg572CCtbZa95-SB7/w495-h640/NewAbridged.png" width="495" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div></div></blockquote>
<p>2) <b>The Awakening to Reality Guide - Web Abridged Version</b> by Pablo Pintabona and Nafis Rahman:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://atr-abridgedguide.blogspot.com/2021/11/this-is-shortened-version-of-complete.html">Access the Abridged Version</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Special thanks to these individuals for their efforts in making these compilations. I trust they will greatly benefit spiritual aspirants.</p><p>3) <b>The Awakening to Reality Guide - Original Version </b>compiled by Soh:</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rq4omszvrtby7din4ru5l/Awakening-to-Reality_-A-Guide-to-the-Nature-of-Mind-3-SEPTEMBER-2023_DRAFT.pdf?rlkey=1nqvxiwobnwcl1xhs9pxst3qg&dl=0">Awakening to Reality: A Guide to the Nature of Mind - PDF</a> or <a href="https://app.box.com/s/deqam99k1zd2jmby3rrftvdst2mivoje">Awakening to Reality: A Guide to the Nature of Mind (Long Version) Mirror Link</a></li><li>This is the original 1300+ pages document upon which the practice guide and abridged guide is based.</li></ul><div><ul><li>Feedback: <b>"I also want to say, actually the main ATR document >1200 pages helped me the most with insight. </b><b>I am not sure how many have the patience to read it. I did it twice 😂 it was so helpful and these <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/01/all-thrangu-rinpoche-58-books-at-35.html">Mahamudra books</a> supported ATR insights. </b><b>Just thought to share.", </b><b>"To be honest, the document is ok [in length], because it’s by insight level. Each insight is like 100 plus pages except anatta [was] exceptionally long [if] I remember lol. If someone read and contemplate at the same time it’s good because the same point will repeat again and again like in the nikayas [traditional Buddhist scriptures in the Pali canon] and insight should arise by the end of it imo.", </b><b>"A 1000 plus pages ebook written by a serious practitioner Soh Wei Yu that took me a month to read each time and I am so grateful for it. It’s a huge undertaking and I have benefitted from it more that I can ever imagine. Please read patiently." </b><b> - Yin Ling</b></li></ul></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-89351531077497879742024-03-08T01:05:00.003+08:002024-03-19T01:53:51.330+08:00Introduction to Nagarjuna and Madhyamaka for Beginners<p>I would like to thank Vu Huy Le and Cao Khanh for offering to help with the translation and ammendments of the <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/12/vietnamese-bay-giai-oan-giac-ngo-cua.html">Thusness Seven Stages of Enlightenment article in Vietnamese</a> and <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/12/vietnamese-ve-anatta-khong-tu-nga-su.html">On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection article in Vietnamese</a>. Cao Khanh had a breakthrough into anatman realisation shortly after helping with the translation while reading the book that Yin Ling and I recommended: Cracking the Walnut: Understanding the Dialectics of Nagarjuna by Thich Nhat Hanh <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Walnut-Understanding-Dialectics-Nagarjuna-ebook/dp/B0BKKR3N74/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GY6R5K9F7ZCF">https://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Walnut-Understanding-Dialectics-Nagarjuna-ebook/dp/B0BKKR3N74/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GY6R5K9F7ZCF</a></p><p><br /></p><p>I recommend the book by Thich Nhat Hanh above, find it a good introduction to Nagarjuna's teaching and quite accessible for beginners.</p><p>Another good beginner book to Madhyamika is How to See Yourself As You Really Are by the Dalai Lama: <a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/How-See-Yourself-You-Really/dp/0743290453/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W4OQeCmEgwQUBmvVBERo7uDFxQwdFP_x3jd9lDpOW70exXT17ayTLA9gyu4K4FRF.r9TVFi5KTJ62Ic8lnfSgyUvfx6IQqDT3t0yh1T14VAQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=how+to+see+yourself+as+you+really+are&qid=1710781621&s=books&sr=1-1">https://www.amazon.com.au/How-See-Yourself-You-Really/dp/0743290453/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W4OQeCmEgwQUBmvVBERo7uDFxQwdFP_x3jd9lDpOW70exXT17ayTLA9gyu4K4FRF.r9TVFi5KTJ62Ic8lnfSgyUvfx6IQqDT3t0yh1T14VAQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=how+to+see+yourself+as+you+really+are&qid=1710781621&s=books&sr=1-1</a></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-35571954108964353892024-03-06T17:07:00.021+08:002024-03-13T21:09:43.035+08:00Samsara is Nirvana<p>“Earth is flesh... Water is blood... Fire is heat... Air is breath... Space is mind... The sun and moon are the eyes... Stars are light... Clouds are hair... Trees are nāḍīs... Mountains are the body... Cliffs are the bones... These are perfect as such in the body of the yogin. [...] As such, since all phenomena of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa are complete within the body and mind of the yogin, both saṃsāra and nirvāṇa are present as the buddhahood of the naturally perfect nature. [...] This so-called 'saṃsāra,' this is nirvāṇa."</p><p>— Excerpt from "Buddhahood in This Life," translated by Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith (Introduction video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMWJ5TbbxU8">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMWJ5TbbxU8</a>, Amazon link to book: <a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Buddhahood-This-Life-Commentary-Vimalamitra-ebook/dp/B01G2DD4U6">https://www.amazon.com.au/Buddhahood-This-Life-Commentary-Vimalamitra-ebook/dp/B01G2DD4U6</a>, Acarya Malcolm's website: <a href="https://www.zangthal.com/">https://www.zangthal.com/</a>)</p><p>Images below generated from ChatGPT / Dall-E.</p><p><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJLP62MjV1FtBtmzdsvrLB07-yDmVlyy_Bd3jaASi2VAWkFPU9RcgKVhyphenhyphenDmYyvhFLUYLAimaZWC3VhFc_WxCe302Dd0oetn2jEabV9mVJArTnxIn4nEmYKsKl9iSeatCs7TCzaiJ9jlfOZQI8ugm4af4XI-dqtUCfEyjqZn3fQX_hxifYJb80hiiIrshE/s1792/IMG_1991.webp" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1792" data-original-width="1024" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJLP62MjV1FtBtmzdsvrLB07-yDmVlyy_Bd3jaASi2VAWkFPU9RcgKVhyphenhyphenDmYyvhFLUYLAimaZWC3VhFc_WxCe302Dd0oetn2jEabV9mVJArTnxIn4nEmYKsKl9iSeatCs7TCzaiJ9jlfOZQI8ugm4af4XI-dqtUCfEyjqZn3fQX_hxifYJb80hiiIrshE/s16000/IMG_1991.webp" /></a></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjzMm9U3txJyzwcGHjrhryQdgpGHmUap8dxtKthzKPf9yGbkHDsLe7qNqMn-sEQLHK1G4-49QagQPg0NUFvJFP_bp8shBYQ4F8fRsCXd2Vd0xNXllCUU5lVWXMk1tRRwNd7lCQONCGTDLZsWIJKog-dEG6xhLx93daeVASk8yvIm2M81v31nRIXqISZxX0/s1792/IMG_2103.jpeg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1792" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjzMm9U3txJyzwcGHjrhryQdgpGHmUap8dxtKthzKPf9yGbkHDsLe7qNqMn-sEQLHK1G4-49QagQPg0NUFvJFP_bp8shBYQ4F8fRsCXd2Vd0xNXllCUU5lVWXMk1tRRwNd7lCQONCGTDLZsWIJKog-dEG6xhLx93daeVASk8yvIm2M81v31nRIXqISZxX0/s16000/IMG_2103.jpeg" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiLuHACkO7dBKgqLjLvYuPa12jYnQihyphenhyphenhHqMyhScIxsA8U-T9vQGiQJOHa4j_x3HBu4XMvNlLEbvXPYOLCt-WnZwwtavnZo3VfzZMAnLaQ5rD1DU-HImNjWXI3CavznkF7dtqYIpe_8sbAD57iOBO__F5P0q9zG8Uk-vuOnvgDYP20klTVMDY8hKYzWy80/s1792/IMG_2100.jpeg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1792" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiLuHACkO7dBKgqLjLvYuPa12jYnQihyphenhyphenhHqMyhScIxsA8U-T9vQGiQJOHa4j_x3HBu4XMvNlLEbvXPYOLCt-WnZwwtavnZo3VfzZMAnLaQ5rD1DU-HImNjWXI3CavznkF7dtqYIpe_8sbAD57iOBO__F5P0q9zG8Uk-vuOnvgDYP20klTVMDY8hKYzWy80/s16000/IMG_2100.jpeg" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><p></p><p><br /></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-10557551122482375012024-03-06T00:25:00.006+08:002024-03-13T00:26:19.703+08:00To Find a Buddha is to See Your Nature<p> </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh0sN-G0WhaWHk2y7DQYY2z8MhXPo6E0LTKwIQNGh15uYVOqe7UJOLmBL9Dnk1R_T1-KS0WdbrQKnftFWvbpDBmgYBPntPvEsvJ0mC0lBvl-Bed6x1VhDrcLVB6uWelVKJhUEbGeXqQ5bB7avnwnvenEQFzoAA0qajFFm-p4gvaKsjGLv0GVVUgsspxPbo/s1024/IMG_2117.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1024" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh0sN-G0WhaWHk2y7DQYY2z8MhXPo6E0LTKwIQNGh15uYVOqe7UJOLmBL9Dnk1R_T1-KS0WdbrQKnftFWvbpDBmgYBPntPvEsvJ0mC0lBvl-Bed6x1VhDrcLVB6uWelVKJhUEbGeXqQ5bB7avnwnvenEQFzoAA0qajFFm-p4gvaKsjGLv0GVVUgsspxPbo/s16000/IMG_2117.png" /></a></div><br /><p></p><p><br /></p><p>Bodhidharma, the first Zen patriarch of China:</p><p><br /></p><p>'To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature (見性). Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who's free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don't see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you'll never find a buddha. The truth is there's nothing to find.'</p><p>(The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma, p 13; T48, no. 2009, p. 373c17-20)</p><p><br /></p><p>'To attain enlightenment (成佛) you have to see your nature (見性). Unless you see your nature, all this talk about cause and effect is nonsense (外道法). Buddhas don't practice nonsense. A Buddha free of karma free of cause and effect. To say he attains anything at all is to slander a Buddha. What could he possibly attain? Even focusing on a mind, a power, an understanding, or a view is impossible for a Buddha. A Buddha isn't one sided. The nature of his mind is basically empty, neither pure nor impure. He's free of practice and realization (無修無證).'</p><p>(p 17; p. 374a15-20)</p><p><br /></p><p>'People who don't see their nature (見性) and imagine they can practice thoughtlessness (無作想) all the time are liars and fools. They fall into endless space. They're like drunks. They can't tell good from evil. If you intend to cultivate such a practice (無作法), you have to see your nature (見性) before you can put an end to rational thought (息緣慮). To attain enlightenment without seeing your nature is impossible.'</p><p>(p 19; p. 374a24-27)</p><p><br /></p><p>'Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware (覺性), miraculously aware (靈覺). Responding, arching your brows blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path. And the path is Zen. But the word Zen is one that remains a puzzle to both mortals and sages. Seeing your nature (見本性) is Zen. Unless you see your nature, it's not Zen.'</p><p>(p 29; p. 375a5-9)</p><p><br /></p><p>'Once mortals see their nature (見本性), all attachments end. Awareness (神識) isn't hidden. But you can only find it right now. It's only now. If you really want to find the Way, don't hold on to anything. Once you put an end to karma and nurture your awareness (神), any attachments that remain will come to an end. Understanding comes naturally. You don't have to make any effort. But fanatics (外道) don't understand what the Buddha meant. And the harder they try, the farther they get from the Sage's meaning. All day long they invoke Buddhas and read sutras. But they remain blind to their own divine nature (神性), and they don't escape the Wheel.</p><p>A buddha is an idle person. He doesn't run around after fortune and fame. What good are such things in the end? People who don't see their nature (見性) and think reading sutras, invoking Buddhas', studying long and hard, practicing morning and night, never lying down (長坐不臥), or acquiring knowledge is the Dharma, blaspheme the Dharma. Buddhas of the past and future only talk about seeing your nature (見性). All practices are impermanent. Unless they see their nature (見性) people who claim to have attained unexcelled, complete enlightenment are liars.'</p><p>(p 35-37; p. 375b22-c3)</p><p><br /></p><p>'Basically, seeing, hearing, and knowing (見聞覺知) are completely empty (本自圓寂). Your anger, Joy, or pain is like that of puppet. You can search but you won't find a thing. According to the sutras, evil deeds result in hardships and good deeds result in blessings. Angry people go to hell and happy people go to heaven. But once you know that the nature of anger and joy is empty and you let them go, you free yourself from karma.'</p><p>(p 45; p. 376b2-6)</p><p><br /></p><p>'Someone who seeks the Way doesn't look beyond himself. He knows that the mind is the Way. But when he finds the mind, he finds nothing. And when he finds the Way, he finds nothing. If you think you can use the mind to find the Way, you're deluded. When you're deluded, buddhahood exists. When you're aware, it doesn't exist. This is because awareness is buddhahood.'</p><p>(Wake-up Sermon, in The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma, p 59; T48, no. 2009, p. 371c10-13)</p><p><br /></p><p>'To see form but not be corrupted by form or to hear sound but not be corrupted by sound is liberation. Eyes that aren't attached to form are the Gates of Zen. Ears that aren't attached to sound are also the Gates of Zen. In short, those who perceive the existence and nature of phenomena and remain unattached are liberated. Those who perceive the external appearance of phenomena are at their mercy. Not to be subject to affliction is what's meant by liberation. There's no other liberation. When you know how to look at form, form doesn't give rise to mind and mind doesn't give rise to form. Form and mind are both pure.'</p><p>(Wake-up Sermon, in The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma, p 61; T48, no. 2009, p. 371c17-23)</p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-17445822185189810352024-03-05T21:53:00.001+08:002024-03-13T21:54:57.156+08:00Very good description of selflessness<p>John Tan shared:<br /><br />"<span face=""Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif" style="background-color: white; color: #242424; font-size: 16px; font-weight: 600; white-space-collapse: preserve;">Very good description of selflessness</span>"</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" class="BLOG_video_class" height="266" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZMn0SPmdU_M" width="320" youtube-src-id="ZMn0SPmdU_M"></iframe></div><br /><p><br /></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-9449992532908489612024-03-05T01:16:00.002+08:002024-03-14T01:17:12.540+08:00Doubts / Doubtlessness / Self-Enquiry<p> Mr. WA</p><p>Top Contributor</p><p>That makes sense. I have definitely looked for the seer, thinker, doer, but in experience it is still very fast and very subtle. Very hard to catch, still a very automatic and solidified conditioning, I think. I recognize this is probably the deepest of all conditioning... the core sense of being "separate" from that which is directly perceived. However, there's still a great deal of aversion and craving in the body mind. Much of it is very powerful, very uncomfortable, and very slow to dissolve. My feeling at this stage is that this needs to be worked through before I will have the clarity to start to see the very subtle Anatta pointers. Do you agree?</p><p>I have definitely observed that clarity continues to get finer, allowing a deeper investigation, the more conditioning is dissolved. It seems reasonable that at some point it will be possible to finely see and dissolve the seer, thinker, doer.</p><p>Definitely hear you on the radiance part, I will continue to inquire. I am at a really strange place with that because of my whole psychedelic awakening thing. I definitely experience presence / awareness as a sort of bubble, but it never took over my identity. I have a hard time with the no-doubt aspect, because skepticism and doubting is a very deep conditioning of mine to begin with. There's more work to do.</p><p>20m</p><p>Reply</p><p>Soh Wei Yu</p><p>Author</p><p>Admin</p><p>Aversion, craving, everything can also be the fuel for insight investigation, the contemplation of the two stanzas, the seal of anatta is always already the case -- a dharma seal, not a state or a stage, so there is no need to wait. But of course you should also balance with some shamatha, some calm abiding practice, anapansati, or something that works for you.</p><p>9m</p><p>Reply</p><p>Edited</p><p>Soh Wei Yu</p><p>Author</p><p>Admin</p><p>You can try self enquiry to realize that doubtless certainty of Beingness.. when enquiring, just enquire without expection of doubt/doubtless/future attainment etc, diving straight to the Source, to what Self is.</p><p>Doubts cant help happening until the doubtless certainty of Beingness dawn just like cloud covers pass revealing the doubtless clearer than day brillliance of the Sun. At that time even if you want to deny that sun's brilliance that outshines all doubts, all thoughts, and indeed the entire world, you can never do it.</p><p>You can't force doubtlessness before that self-realization, and doubts cannot be forced to stay after self-realization, just like darkness cannot be forced to stay when the intense sunshine reveals itself dispelling all darkness, and it's not doubts per se that is the source of the issue, just like darkness was never an issue preventing sunshine from revealing itself.</p><p>So just self enquire wholeheartedly and meditate on what the Source/Self is until it reveals itself on its own. Don't worry about doubts/doubtlessness, it will take care of itself.</p><p>8m</p><p>Reply</p><p>Edited</p><p>Soh Wei Yu</p><p>Author</p><p>Admin</p><p><br /></p><p>“Hi Mr. H,</p><p>In addition to what you wrote, I hope to convey another dimension of Presence to you. That is Encountering Presence in its first impression, unadulterated and full blown in stillness.</p><p>So after reading it, just feel it with your entire body-mind and forgot about it. Don't let it corrupt your mind.😝</p><p>Presence, Awareness, Beingness, Isness are all synonyms. There can be all sorts of definitions but all these are not the path to it. The path to it must be non-conceptual and direct. This is the only way.</p><p>When contemplating the koan "before birth who am I", the thinking mind attempts to seek into it's memory bank for similar experiences to get an answer. This is how the thinking mind works - compare, categorize and measure in order to understand.</p><p>However, when we encounter such a koan, the mind reaches its limit when it tries to penetrate its own depth with no answer. There will come a time when the mind exhausts itself and come to a complete standstill and from that stillness comes an earthshaking BAM!</p><p>I. Just I.</p><p>Before birth this I, a thousand years ago this I, a thousand later this I. I AM I.</p><p>It is without any arbitrary thoughts, any comparisons. It fully authenticates it's own clarity, it's own existence, ITSELF in clean, pure, direct non-conceptuality. No why, no because.</p><p>Just ITSELF in stillness nothing else.</p><p>Intuit the vipassana and the samantha. Intuit the total exertion and realization. The essence of message must be raw and uncontaminated by words.</p><p>Hope that helps!” - John Tan, 2019</p><p>8m</p><p>Reply</p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-69217926075811177542024-03-05T00:46:00.004+08:002024-03-13T21:04:26.838+08:00Self and phenomena as a learnt, reified concept<p> </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjX9TyZcMR3lQC5dmYIvO-1G0ESnI9LSDBaRz08fxX23z-TjUmI8uJEL0HQzLXBc7CeZ0CWp8XJQHALOGKXUztht6znZhd4VUoRpcEmbgjkawe5e-BddVZiOA-gQwrJXKMj0cUbEeo_HDWSSwmL0dAWXdwfbLFnfp4jbJAf6_lf-pK7miWVGhjy3X0UOAI/s1024/DALL%C2%B7E%202024-03-10%2001.13.14%20-%20Imagine%20a%20serene%20and%20vast%20landscape%20under%20a%20twilight%20sky,%20symbolizing%20the%20transition%20from%20dualities%20into%20the%20unity%20of%20understanding,%20based%20on%20Nagarjun.webp" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1024" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjX9TyZcMR3lQC5dmYIvO-1G0ESnI9LSDBaRz08fxX23z-TjUmI8uJEL0HQzLXBc7CeZ0CWp8XJQHALOGKXUztht6znZhd4VUoRpcEmbgjkawe5e-BddVZiOA-gQwrJXKMj0cUbEeo_HDWSSwmL0dAWXdwfbLFnfp4jbJAf6_lf-pK7miWVGhjy3X0UOAI/s16000/DALL%C2%B7E%202024-03-10%2001.13.14%20-%20Imagine%20a%20serene%20and%20vast%20landscape%20under%20a%20twilight%20sky,%20symbolizing%20the%20transition%20from%20dualities%20into%20the%20unity%20of%20understanding,%20based%20on%20Nagarjun.webp" /></a></div><br /><p></p><p><i>ChatGPT: Imagine an image that captures the essence of Nagarjuna's philosophy from the Mulamadhyamikakarika, focusing on the concepts of dependent origination, emptiness, and the freedom from the extremes of existence and non-existence. This image could feature a serene, vast landscape under a twilight sky, symbolizing the transition from dualities into the unity of understanding. In the center, a single, leafless tree stands, representing emptiness and the interconnectedness of all things through its roots and branches, illustrating the principle of dependent origination. The tree is neither fully lit nor completely in shadow, embodying the middle way and the avoidance of extremes. This tranquil scene captures the profound simplicity and depth of Nagarjuna's teachings, emphasizing the peace found in understanding the nature of reality beyond dichotomies.</i></p><p><i>Here's a simpler image that embodies Nagarjuna's teachings on dependent origination, emptiness, and the middle way, capturing the essence of finding peace beyond the extremes of existence and non-existence.</i></p><p><br /></p><div style="background-color: white; color: #1c1e21; font-family: "Segoe UI Historic", "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><div class="x1cy8zhl x78zum5 x1q0g3np xod5an3 x1pi30zi x1swvt13 xz9dl7a" style="align-items: flex-start; display: flex; flex-direction: row; font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: 12px; padding-left: 16px; padding-right: 16px; padding-top: 12px;"><div class="x1iyjqo2" style="flex-grow: 1; font-family: inherit;"><div class="x78zum5 xdt5ytf xz62fqu x16ldp7u" style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: -5px; margin-top: -5px;"><div class="xu06os2 x1ok221b" style="font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 5px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x xudqn12 x3x7a5m x6prxxf xvq8zen xo1l8bm xi81zsa x1yc453h" color="var(--secondary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><h3 class="x1heor9g x1qlqyl8 x1pd3egz x1a2a7pz x1gslohp x1yc453h" id=":r5e:" style="color: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 4px 0px 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="xt0psk2" style="display: inline; font-family: inherit;"><a class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz xt0b8zv xzsf02u x1s688f" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/571719226202845/user/668785225/?__cft__[0]=AZWE_kI1275c4Y_XS1BwCKmmKUiDgUOVP96nxPOKRWuJ5oJhfqryttCj7WemonkDINbs1xb4F4uG3sNY5uan6QAR2JmSZu4kCF3KMR29c0yeFhUUvihCNofTxzS-1MZc_phwrg0kZPtoN-lAX7YjJUNpEsv9SaEXsYeAZ0_ENoKI4V6ROkv0pEUwpvowr5SnDL8&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-weight: 600; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Soh Wei Yu</span></a></span></span></h3></span></div><div class="xu06os2 x1ok221b" style="font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 5px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x x4zkp8e x676frb x1nxh6w3 x1sibtaa xo1l8bm xi81zsa x1yc453h" color="var(--secondary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.8125rem; line-height: 1.2308; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><span id=":r5f:" style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="x3nfvp2 x1kgmq87" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; margin-top: -2px;"><span class="x3nfvp2" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x1rg5ohu" style="display: inline-block; font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x6s0dn4 x1lcm9me x1yr5g0i xrt01vj x10y3i5r x3nfvp2 x1qx5ct2 x150jy0e x1e558r4 x1hr4nm9" style="align-items: center; background-color: var(--primary-deemphasized-button-background); border-radius: 4px; display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; height: 20px; padding-left: 4px; padding-right: 4px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1nxh6w3 x1sibtaa xo1l8bm x1qq9wsj" color="var(--accent)" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.8125rem; line-height: 1.2308; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><span class="x1lliihq x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x1n2onr6 xlyipyv xuxw1ft x1j85h84" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; overflow: hidden; padding-bottom: 1px; position: relative; text-overflow: ellipsis; text-wrap: nowrap;">Admin</span></span></div></span></span></div></span></span><span class="xsgj6o6" style="font-family: inherit; margin-left: 4px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x1rg5ohu" style="display: inline-block; font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x6s0dn4 x1lcm9me x1yr5g0i xrt01vj x10y3i5r x3nfvp2 x1qx5ct2 x150jy0e x1e558r4 x1qhmfi1" style="align-items: center; background-color: var(--secondary-button-background); border-radius: 4px; display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; height: 20px; padding-left: 4px; padding-right: 4px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1nxh6w3 x1sibtaa xo1l8bm xzsf02u" color="var(--primary-text)" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.8125rem; line-height: 1.2308; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><span class="x1lliihq x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x1n2onr6 xlyipyv xuxw1ft x1j85h84" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; overflow: hidden; padding-bottom: 1px; position: relative; text-overflow: ellipsis; text-wrap: nowrap;">Top Contributor</span></span></div></span></span></div></span></span></span></span><span class="xh99ass" style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="xzpqnlu xjm9jq1 x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x10l6tqk x1i1rx1s" style="clip: rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px); font-family: inherit; height: 1px; overflow: hidden; position: absolute; width: 1px;"> </span><span aria-hidden="true" style="font-family: inherit;"> · </span></span></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="x4k7w5x x1h91t0o x1h9r5lt x1jfb8zj xv2umb2 x1beo9mf xaigb6o x12ejxvf x3igimt xarpa2k xedcshv x1lytzrv x1t2pt76 x7ja8zs x1qrby5j" style="align-items: inherit; align-self: inherit; display: inherit; flex-direction: inherit; flex: inherit; font-family: inherit; height: inherit; max-height: inherit; max-width: inherit; min-height: inherit; min-width: inherit; place-content: inherit; width: inherit;"><a class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz x1heor9g xt0b8zv xo1l8bm" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/?multi_permalinks=24954284627519632&notif_id=1709827491492919&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif#" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span aria-labelledby=":r5m:" class="x1rg5ohu x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x16dsc37 xt0b8zv" style="display: inline-block; font-family: inherit; overflow: hidden; vertical-align: top;"><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1g77sc7" style="cursor: inherit; 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text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">g</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x13rv6gb erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 28; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">u</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x14yy4lh erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 2; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">u</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xgeagd7 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 46; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">a</span><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1xxvtuq erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 38; position: absolute; top: 3em;">8</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xal98gn erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 16; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">u</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1o7lsid erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 15; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">7</span><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x8onsx5 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 48; position: absolute; top: 3em;">8</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xclvua8 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 60; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">i</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x16kj9vd" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 22; position: relative; vertical-align: inherit;">1</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1sjo555 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 10; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">g</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xlmi2g5 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 35; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">9</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x4g1k81 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 21; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">1</span><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x7zgzr6" style="cursor: inherit; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 56; position: relative;">h</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xde8tdn erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 52; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">a</span><span class="xt0psk2 x1qlqyl8 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xt3tw32 erhKlDPa edt0" style="display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; order: 26; position: absolute; top: 3em;">3</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1ee9ax4 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 39; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">t</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xhp99yf erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 41; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">5</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x434fd erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 20; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">1</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1eopwuj erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 23; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">4</span><span class="xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xdc8zo0 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 53; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">f</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1h3rv7z erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 5; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">m</span><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1nicfno erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 59; position: absolute; top: 3em;">8</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xnlcnb7 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 31; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">5</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1vqz4hg erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 33; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">a</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x8az3br erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 32; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">7</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1pt730z erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 47; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">9</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x2r4l8e erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 8; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">9</span><span class="xmper1u xt0psk2 xjb2p0i x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1meexak erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 55; position: absolute; top: 3em;">0</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1hrcb2b erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 6; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">l</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xt5e8co erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 17; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">7</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1wa695h erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 36; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">4</span><span class="xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x9ek82g erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 1; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">f</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xo1ph6p erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 3; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">7</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1n901it erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 13; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">u</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xsmz2so erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 37; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">g</span><span class="xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xd1zjae erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 27; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">6</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1ocldi erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 12; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">5</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xnt8be4 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 29; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">l</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1iapmwa erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 9; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">1</span><span class="xmper1u x1qlqyl8 x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xccpzn3 erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; order: 58; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">2</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1ihsnu5 erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 44; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">g</span><span class="xjb2p0i x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1162wnf erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 25; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">l</span><span class="xmper1u x15bjb6t xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xpchg7c erhKlDPa edt0" style="cursor: inherit; font-family: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 40; position: absolute; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">9</span><span class="x1qlqyl8 x15bjb6t x1r8a4m5 xi7du73 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 xi695je erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; order: 14; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em; vertical-align: inherit;">u</span><span class="x1r8a4m5 x1n2onr6 x17ihmo5 x1o75cna erhKlDPa edt0" style="font-family: inherit; order: 49; position: absolute; text-decoration: inherit; top: 3em;">g</span></span></span></span></a></span></span><span class="xh99ass" style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="xzpqnlu xjm9jq1 x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x10l6tqk x1i1rx1s" style="clip: rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px); font-family: inherit; height: 1px; overflow: hidden; position: absolute; width: 1px;"> </span><span aria-hidden="true" style="font-family: inherit;"> · </span></span></span><span class="xuxw1ft" style="font-family: inherit; text-wrap: nowrap;"><span class="x4k7w5x x1h91t0o x1h9r5lt x1jfb8zj xv2umb2 x1beo9mf xaigb6o x12ejxvf x3igimt xarpa2k xedcshv x1lytzrv x1t2pt76 x7ja8zs x1qrby5j" style="align-items: inherit; align-self: inherit; display: inherit; flex-direction: inherit; flex: inherit; font-family: inherit; height: inherit; max-height: inherit; max-width: inherit; min-height: inherit; min-width: inherit; place-content: inherit; width: inherit;"><span class="x1rg5ohu x1n2onr6 xs7f9wi" style="display: inline-block; 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border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; vertical-align: bottom; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><svg class="x19dipnz x1lliihq x1k90msu x2h7rmj x1qfuztq" fill="currentColor" height="20" style="--color: var(--secondary-icon);" viewbox="0 0 20 20" width="20"><g fill-rule="evenodd" transform="translate(-446 -350)"><path d="M458 360a2 2 0 1 1-4 0 2 2 0 0 1 4 0m6 0a2 2 0 1 1-4 0 2 2 0 0 1 4 0m-12 0a2 2 0 1 1-4 0 2 2 0 0 1 4 0"></path></g></svg><div class="x1ey2m1c xds687c x17qophe xg01cxk x47corl x10l6tqk x13vifvy x1ebt8du x19991ni x1dhq9h xzolkzo x12go9s9 x1rnf11y xprq8jg" data-visualcompletion="ignore" role="none" style="border-radius: 999px; font-family: inherit; inset: 0px; opacity: 0; pointer-events: none; position: absolute; transition-duration: var(--fds-duration-extra-extra-short-out); transition-property: opacity; transition-timing-function: var(--fds-animation-fade-out);"></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="background-color: white; color: #1c1e21; font-family: "Segoe UI Historic", "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x1iorvi4 x1pi30zi x1l90r2v x1swvt13" data-ad-comet-preview="message" data-ad-preview="message" id=":r5g:" style="font-family: inherit; padding: 4px 16px 16px;"><div class="x78zum5 xdt5ytf xz62fqu x16ldp7u" style="display: flex; flex-direction: column; font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: -5px; margin-top: -5px;"><div class="xu06os2 x1ok221b" style="font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 5px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x xudqn12 x3x7a5m x6prxxf xvq8zen xo1l8bm xzsf02u x1yc453h" color="var(--primary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><div class="xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Recently John Tan asked me to recall when did I realise that 'self' is a learnt and reified concept. Wanted to mention that this is an important point and even in initial anatta breakthrough it is usually unclear at first. It comes as a deepening of insight.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Soh:</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">At the I AM level, the personal ego is [seen to be] “learnt” and dropped.. but all self/Self is only seen through and dropped at anatta</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">John <span style="font-family: inherit;"><a style="color: #385898; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit;" tabindex="-1"></a></span>Tan: </div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I don't think this is true. Think deeper, recall.</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">U must understand that u can enquiry "who am I" and search for "I", u can have experience of "I M" or even experience no-mind, or even realized that "I" does not exist, but still not realized that "I" is a reified concept.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Soh: </div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Hmm.. “I” as reified concept probably becomes clearer as i contemplated more on emptiness. But even in the initial bahiya sutta realization, there was a recognition that the sense of a seer or a seeing or awareness behind or beside manifestation is a reified concept that is wrong</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">That it is imagined and abstracted out of manifestation due to false view and then anatta is immediately authenticated as luminous manifestation and realised as always already so. Seeing is only ever the seen and no other seer beside, in the seen only the seen. Like putting on glasses and vision is corrected finally</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">....</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">(later)</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I just recalled i had a deeper understanding about nine months after anatta</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Then i wrote:</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The View</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Just posted in The Tao Bums a week ago:</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I have just come to a new realisation of the implications of views in daily life. I could have misunderstood what goldisheavy meant but I think it has to do with the fields of meaning. I have realised how ideas, beliefs, notions, views pervade our life and causes attachment.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I now see that every single attachment is an attachment to view, which, no matter what it is, comes to two basic clinging: the view 'there is' and the view 'there isn't'.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I started by noticing how in the past I had a sense of self, body and awareness... That these all seem so real to me and I kept coming back to that subjective sense and this is no longer the case now: I don't even have a sense of a body nowadays. Then I realized that all these clingings are related to view.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The view of There is.... Self, body, mind, awareness, world, whatever. Because of this clinging on to things as existent, they appear real to us and we cling to them. The only way to eradicate such clingings is to remove the root of clinging: the view of 'there is' and 'there isn't'.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The realization of anatta removes the view of 'there is self', 'there is awareness' as an independent and permanent essence. Basically, any views about a subjective self is removed through the insight that "seeing is just the seen", the subject is always only its objective constituents. There is no more sense of self, body, awareness, or more precisely there is no clinging to a "there is" with regards to such labels. It is seen that these are entirely ungraspable processes. In short the clinging and constant referencing to an awareness, a self dissolves, due to the notion "there is" such things are being eradicated.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The realization of dream-like reality removes the view of 'there are objects', the universe, the world of things... One realizes what heart sutra meant by no five skandhas. This is basically the same realization as anatta, except that it impacts the view "there is" and "there isn't" in terms of the objective pole, in contrast to the earlier insight that dissolves "there is" of a subjective self.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">What I have overlooked all these while is the implications of views and how the thicket of views cause all clingings and suffering and what underpins those thicket of views, and how realization affects and dissolves these views.</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">----------</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Related stuff:</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">A view is a fundamental belief one holds about reality. For example, "everything exists" (sarva asti)</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">....</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The root of both these mistaken positions is "is" and "is not" -- for example "I exist now, and I will continue to exist after death" or "I exist now but when I die I will cease to exist".</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">~ Loppon Namdrol (Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith)</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">At base, the main fetter of self-grasping is predicated upon naive reification of existence and non-existence. Dependent origination is what allows us to see into the non-arising nature of dependently originated phenomena, i.e. the self-nature of our aggregates. Thus, right view is the direct seeing, in meditative equipoise, of this this non-arising nature of all phenomena. As such, it is not a "view" in the sense that is something we hold as concept, it is rather a wisdom which "flows" into our post-equipoise and causes us to truly perceive the world in the following way in Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana:</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">"Form is similar to a foam,</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Feeling is like water bubbles,</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Ideation is equivalent with a mirage,</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Formations are similar with a banana tree,</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Consciousness is like an illusion."</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">...</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">"In other words, right view is the beginning of the noble path. It is certainly the case that dependent origination is "correct view"; when one analyzes a bit deeper, one discovers that in the case "view" means being free from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views."</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">~ Loppon Namdrol<span style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem;"> (Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith)</span></div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Another related article from an Actualist practitioner: <span style="font-family: inherit;"><a class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz xt0b8zv x1fey0fg" href="https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnickdowntherabbithole.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fconversations-breakthrough.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3bbaE4Yatdk-qOtRgHZhNFshSZi-FU1KTSa8QyM8-96XpjxTx9MZFpC4M%23more&h=AT2eNns_2PiLukiO8CURgZSbyY2K8XQmNsNaWpAC2_sT7pG4rwfdEWbg0JFMP2zEnvMbZpvk1GYT_ec1SgrUhaIPoB-DPL-fVDJ0bwkpNtA8NmF-hZ3GwNNmRjoeHqkUzg&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT0iTnuV365Ao_Er4OuC1m0u7LUhF51Ti4UgKrVHuqVIMKI7aOsOTvwN-z3FUeJ7JhinRlZuasWu2FiAONFNjE5OPCtvvP7d2ZflH137ilUIlWTFLAqRcxAMv7SOkiQe_J0F7tXzACGiM8XwSRW1lxSKqw9r75OR581Vo2DOO61Ew2T8hovXWIDAoTaragEzjQI126xZCe_UIOtA19FkV63c" rel="nofollow noreferrer" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0" target="_blank">http://nickdowntherabbithole.blogspot.com/.../conversatio...</a></span></div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Labels: Anatta, Emptiness, View and Path |</div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">- <span style="font-family: inherit;"><a class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz xt0b8zv x1fey0fg" href="https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awakeningtoreality.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fthe-view.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2k189YwJWL--gLk56xWL3ENyE8sWlqIe-lF3c18XIg8C7pb0mWoo4fT3I&h=AT2cLoV-3a3k1XCQvwh6jj3D8Vdhia1UafztKki7X_13E5c3bIYueh4QeFnCv1ZLb1h0X5BSshSBi9IOpzjs1DtsCkjghc4V_P0t-Uck6nx78KWMGKG32zyZBiq2IEYN2w&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT0iTnuV365Ao_Er4OuC1m0u7LUhF51Ti4UgKrVHuqVIMKI7aOsOTvwN-z3FUeJ7JhinRlZuasWu2FiAONFNjE5OPCtvvP7d2ZflH137ilUIlWTFLAqRcxAMv7SOkiQe_J0F7tXzACGiM8XwSRW1lxSKqw9r75OR581Vo2DOO61Ew2T8hovXWIDAoTaragEzjQI126xZCe_UIOtA19FkV63c" rel="nofollow noreferrer" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0" target="_blank">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/07/the-view.html</a></span> </div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">John Tan: </div></div><div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="x3nfvp2 x1j61x8r x1fcty0u xdj266r xhhsvwb xat24cr xgzva0m xxymvpz xlup9mm x1kky2od" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; height: 16px; margin: 0px 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 16px;"><img alt="👍" class="xz74otr" height="16" referrerpolicy="origin-when-cross-origin" src="https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t55/1.5/16/1f44d.png" style="border: 0px; object-fit: fill;" width="16" /></span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">So u must understand the difference.</div></div></span></div></div></div></div><div class="x1n2onr6" id=":r5h:" style="font-family: inherit; position: relative;"><div class="x1n2onr6" style="font-family: inherit; position: relative;"><div class="xmjcpbm x1n2onr6" style="background-color: var(--comment-background); font-family: inherit; position: relative;"><div class="x78zum5 x14ju556 x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x1n2onr6" style="display: flex; font-family: inherit; line-height: 0; overflow: hidden; position: relative;"><a aria-label="The View" class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz x1heor9g xt0b8zv x5yr21d xh8yej3" href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/07/the-view.html?fbclid=IwAR0e_LLtWse1tkkkTGT3lWNcB-D4qllgC6FljsfhmJT73j0AMWbeYGGP75E" rel="nofollow noreferrer" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; 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Welcome to the Awakening to Reality blog. For all new to Awakening to Reality blog, I highly recommend reading the 'Must Read...</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli xsyo7zv x16hj40l" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding-left: 6px; padding-right: 6px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"></div></div></div></a></div></div></div></div><div data-visualcompletion="ignore-dynamic" style="background-color: white; color: #1c1e21; font-family: "Segoe UI Historic", "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; padding-left: 8px; padding-right: 8px;"><a class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjbqb8w xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x2lwn1j xeuugli xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1n2onr6 x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1ja2u2z x1t137rt x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz x1lq5wgf xgqcy7u x30kzoy x9jhf4c x1lliihq" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/post_insights/24954284627519632/?__cft__[0]=AZWE_kI1275c4Y_XS1BwCKmmKUiDgUOVP96nxPOKRWuJ5oJhfqryttCj7WemonkDINbs1xb4F4uG3sNY5uan6QAR2JmSZu4kCF3KMR29c0yeFhUUvihCNofTxzS-1MZc_phwrg0kZPtoN-lAX7YjJUNpEsv9SaEXsYeAZ0_ENoKI4V6ROkv0pEUwpvowr5SnDL8&__tn__=*W-R" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; 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align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><img class="x16dsc37" height="18" role="presentation" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg fill='none' xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 16 16'%3E%3Cpath d='M16.0001 7.9996c0 4.418-3.5815 7.9996-7.9995 7.9996S.001 12.4176.001 7.9996 3.5825 0 8.0006 0C12.4186 0 16 3.5815 16 7.9996Z' fill='url(%23paint0_linear_15251_63610)'/%3E%3Cpath d='M16.0001 7.9996c0 4.418-3.5815 7.9996-7.9995 7.9996S.001 12.4176.001 7.9996 3.5825 0 8.0006 0C12.4186 0 16 3.5815 16 7.9996Z' fill='url(%23paint1_radial_15251_63610)'/%3E%3Cpath d='M16.0001 7.9996c0 4.418-3.5815 7.9996-7.9995 7.9996S.001 12.4176.001 7.9996 3.5825 0 8.0006 0C12.4186 0 16 3.5815 16 7.9996Z' fill='url(%23paint2_radial_15251_63610)' fill-opacity='.5'/%3E%3Cpath d='M7.3014 3.8662a.6974.6974 0 0 1 .6974-.6977c.6742 0 1.2207.5465 1.2207 1.2206v1.7464a.101.101 0 0 0 .101.101h1.7953c.992 0 1.7232.9273 1.4917 1.892l-.4572 1.9047a2.301 2.301 0 0 1-2.2374 1.764H6.9185a.5752.5752 0 0 1-.5752-.5752V7.7384c0-.4168.097-.8278.2834-1.2005l.2856-.5712a3.6878 3.6878 0 0 0 .3893-1.6509l-.0002-.4496ZM4.367 7a.767.767 0 0 0-.7669.767v3.2598a.767.767 0 0 0 .767.767h.767a.3835.3835 0 0 0 .3835-.3835V7.3835A.3835.3835 0 0 0 5.134 7h-.767Z' fill='%23fff'/%3E%3Cdefs%3E%3CradialGradient id='paint1_radial_15251_63610' cx='0' cy='0' r='1' gradientUnits='userSpaceOnUse' gradientTransform='rotate(90 .0005 8) scale(7.99958)'%3E%3Cstop offset='.5618' stop-color='%230866FF' stop-opacity='0'/%3E%3Cstop offset='1' stop-color='%230866FF' stop-opacity='.1'/%3E%3C/radialGradient%3E%3CradialGradient id='paint2_radial_15251_63610' cx='0' cy='0' r='1' gradientUnits='userSpaceOnUse' gradientTransform='rotate(45 -4.5257 10.9237) scale(10.1818)'%3E%3Cstop offset='.3143' stop-color='%2302ADFC'/%3E%3Cstop offset='1' stop-color='%2302ADFC' stop-opacity='0'/%3E%3C/radialGradient%3E%3ClinearGradient id='paint0_linear_15251_63610' x1='2.3989' y1='2.3999' x2='13.5983' y2='13.5993' gradientUnits='userSpaceOnUse'%3E%3Cstop stop-color='%2302ADFC'/%3E%3Cstop offset='.5' stop-color='%230866FF'/%3E%3Cstop offset='1' stop-color='%232B7EFF'/%3E%3C/linearGradient%3E%3C/defs%3E%3C/svg%3E" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: top;" width="18" /></div></span></span></span><span class="x6zyg47 x1xm1mqw xpn8fn3 xtct9fg x13zp6kq x1mcfq15 xrosliz x1wb7cse x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi xamhcws xol2nv xlxy82 x19p7ews xmix8c7 x139jcc6 x1n2onr6 x1xp8n7a x1vjfegm" style="border-bottom-color: var(--card-background); border-left-color: var(--card-background); border-radius: 11px; border-right-color: var(--card-background); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--card-background); border-width: 2px; font-family: inherit; height: 18px; margin-left: -4px; position: relative; width: 18px; z-index: 1;"><span class="x12myldv x1udsgas xrc8dwe xxxhv2y x1rg5ohu xmix8c7 x1xp8n7a" style="border-radius: 9px; display: inline-block; font-family: inherit; height: 18px; width: 18px;"><span class="x4k7w5x x1h91t0o x1h9r5lt x1jfb8zj xv2umb2 x1beo9mf xaigb6o x12ejxvf x3igimt xarpa2k xedcshv x1lytzrv x1t2pt76 x7ja8zs x1qrby5j" style="align-items: inherit; align-self: inherit; display: inherit; flex-direction: inherit; flex: inherit; font-family: inherit; height: inherit; max-height: inherit; max-width: inherit; min-height: inherit; min-width: inherit; place-content: inherit; width: inherit;"><div aria-label="Love: 1 person" class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjbqb8w xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x2lwn1j xeuugli xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1n2onr6 x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1ja2u2z x1t137rt x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x3nfvp2 x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><img class="x16dsc37" height="18" role="presentation" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg fill='none' xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 16 16'%3E%3Cg clip-path='url(%23clip0_15251_63610)'%3E%3Cpath d='M15.9963 8c0 4.4179-3.5811 7.9993-7.9986 7.9993-4.4176 0-7.9987-3.5814-7.9987-7.9992 0-4.4179 3.5811-7.9992 7.9987-7.9992 4.4175 0 7.9986 3.5813 7.9986 7.9992Z' fill='url(%23paint0_linear_15251_63610)'/%3E%3Cpath d='M15.9973 7.9992c0 4.4178-3.5811 7.9992-7.9987 7.9992C3.5811 15.9984 0 12.417 0 7.9992S3.5811 0 7.9986 0c4.4176 0 7.9987 3.5814 7.9987 7.9992Z' fill='url(%23paint1_radial_15251_63610)'/%3E%3Cpath d='M7.9996 5.9081c-.3528-.8845-1.1936-1.507-2.1748-1.507-1.4323 0-2.4254 1.328-2.4254 2.6797 0 2.2718 2.3938 4.0094 4.0816 5.1589.3168.2157.7205.2157 1.0373 0 1.6878-1.1495 4.0815-2.8871 4.0815-5.159 0-1.3517-.993-2.6796-2.4254-2.6796-.9811 0-1.822.6225-2.1748 1.507Z' fill='%23fff'/%3E%3C/g%3E%3Cdefs%3E%3CradialGradient id='paint1_radial_15251_63610' cx='0' cy='0' r='1' gradientUnits='userSpaceOnUse' gradientTransform='matrix(0 7.9992 -7.99863 0 7.9986 7.9992)'%3E%3Cstop offset='.5637' stop-color='%23E11731' stop-opacity='0'/%3E%3Cstop offset='1' stop-color='%23E11731' stop-opacity='.1'/%3E%3C/radialGradient%3E%3ClinearGradient id='paint0_linear_15251_63610' x1='2.3986' y1='2.4007' x2='13.5975' y2='13.5993' gradientUnits='userSpaceOnUse'%3E%3Cstop stop-color='%23FF74AE'/%3E%3Cstop offset='.5001' stop-color='%23FA2E3E'/%3E%3Cstop offset='1' stop-color='%23FF5758'/%3E%3C/linearGradient%3E%3CclipPath id='clip0_15251_63610'%3E%3Cpath fill='%23fff' d='M-.001.0009h15.9992v15.9984H-.001z'/%3E%3C/clipPath%3E%3C/defs%3E%3C/svg%3E" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: top;" width="18" /></div></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x1n2onr6 x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz x1heor9g xnl1qt8 x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x1vjfegm x1lliihq" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-radius: inherit; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: inherit; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; max-height: 1.3333em; outline: none; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 1;" tabindex="0"><div class="x9f619 x1ja2u2z xzpqnlu x1hyvwdk xjm9jq1 x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x10l6tqk x1i1rx1s" style="box-sizing: border-box; clip-path: inset(50%); clip: rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px); font-family: inherit; height: 1px; overflow: hidden; position: absolute; width: 1px; z-index: 0;">All reactions:</div><span aria-hidden="true" class="xrbpyxo x6ikm8r x10wlt62 xlyipyv x1exxlbk" style="float: left; font-family: inherit; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; width: 100px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="xt0b8zv x1e558r4" style="font-family: inherit; padding-left: 4px;">2</span></span></span><span class="xt0b8zv x2bj2ny xrbpyxo xl423tq" style="background-color: var(--surface-background); float: left; font-family: inherit; margin-left: -100px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="x1e558r4" style="font-family: inherit; padding-left: 4px;">Vũ Huy Lê and Cao Khánh</span></span></span></div></span></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 x2lah0s x1qughib x1qjc9v5 xozqiw3 x1q0g3np xykv574 xbmpl8g x4cne27 xifccgj" style="align-items: stretch; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-flow: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; justify-content: space-between; margin: -6px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli xsyo7zv x16hj40l x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli xsyo7zv x16hj40l x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><span class="x4k7w5x x1h91t0o x1h9r5lt x1jfb8zj xv2umb2 x1beo9mf xaigb6o x12ejxvf x3igimt xarpa2k xedcshv x1lytzrv x1t2pt76 x7ja8zs x1qrby5j" style="align-items: inherit; align-self: inherit; display: inherit; flex-direction: inherit; flex: inherit; font-family: inherit; height: inherit; max-height: inherit; max-width: inherit; min-height: inherit; min-width: inherit; place-content: inherit; width: inherit;"><div class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx x2lwn1j xeuugli x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1t137rt x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x3nfvp2 x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1a2a7pz xjyslct xjbqb8w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1heor9g xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1n2onr6 x16tdsg8 x1ja2u2z xt0b8zv" id=":r5i:" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; align-items: stretch; appearance: none; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: inherit; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x xudqn12 x3x7a5m x6prxxf xvq8zen xo1l8bm xi81zsa" color="var(--secondary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;">1 comment</span></div></span></div></div></div></div><div class="xq8finb x16n37ib" style="font-family: inherit; margin-left: 12px; margin-right: 12px;"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 x2lah0s x1qughib x1qjc9v5 xozqiw3 x1q0g3np x150jy0e x1e558r4 xjkvuk6 x1iorvi4 xwrv7xz x8182xy x4cne27 xifccgj" style="align-items: stretch; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-flow: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; justify-content: space-between; margin: -6px -2px; padding: 4px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x193iq5w xeuugli x1r8uery x1iyjqo2 xs83m0k xg83lxy x1h0ha7o x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex: 1 1 0px; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 2px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><div aria-label="Like" class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjbqb8w xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x2lwn1j xeuugli xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1n2onr6 x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg x1ja2u2z x1t137rt x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x3nfvp2 x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz x5ve5x3" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: none; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 x1r8uery x1iyjqo2 xs83m0k xeuugli xl56j7k x6s0dn4 xozqiw3 x1q0g3np xn6708d x1ye3gou xexx8yu xcud41i x139jcc6 x4cne27 xifccgj xn3w4p2 xuxw1ft" style="align-items: center; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-flow: row; flex: 1 1 0px; font-family: inherit; height: 44px; justify-content: center; margin: -6px -4px; min-width: 0px; padding-left: 12px; padding-right: 12px; padding-top: 0px; position: relative; text-wrap: nowrap; z-index: 0;"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli x150jy0e x1e558r4 x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 4px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><span class="x3nfvp2" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit;"><i class="x1b0d499 x1d69dk1" data-visualcompletion="css-img" style="background-image: url("https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yS/r/t9H1Y8uTVJs.png"); background-position: 0px -796px; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: 26px 1536px; display: inline-block; filter: var(--filter-secondary-icon); height: 20px; vertical-align: -0.25em; width: 20px;"></i></span></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli x150jy0e x1e558r4 x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 4px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x xudqn12 x3x7a5m x6prxxf xvq8zen x1s688f xi81zsa" color="var(--secondary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem; font-weight: 600; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Like</span></span></div></div><div class="x1ey2m1c xds687c x17qophe xg01cxk x47corl x10l6tqk x13vifvy x1ebt8du x19991ni x1dhq9h x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m" data-visualcompletion="ignore" role="none" style="border-radius: 4px; font-family: inherit; inset: 0px; opacity: 0; pointer-events: none; position: absolute; transition-duration: var(--fds-duration-extra-extra-short-out); transition-property: opacity; transition-timing-function: var(--fds-animation-fade-out);"></div></div><div aria-label="React" class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjbqb8w xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x2lwn1j xeuugli x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg x1ja2u2z x1t137rt x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x3nfvp2 x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz x4r51d9 x1d0ri9u x4uap5 x1ug4tga xkhd6sd xnfr1j xzpqnlu x179tack x10l6tqk x5ve5x3" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; clip-path: polygon(0px 0px, 0px 0px, 0px 0px, 0px 0px); clip: rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px); cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 13px 0px; position: absolute; right: 6px; text-align: inherit; top: 1px; touch-action: none; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><i class="x1b0d499 x1d69dk1" data-visualcompletion="css-img" style="background-image: url("https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yY/r/TbuckT_vu-c.png"); background-position: 0px -854px; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: 26px 998px; display: inline-block; filter: var(--filter-secondary-icon); height: 16px; vertical-align: -0.25em; width: 16px;"></i><div class="x1ey2m1c xds687c x17qophe xg01cxk x47corl x10l6tqk x13vifvy x1ebt8du x19991ni x1dhq9h x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m" data-visualcompletion="ignore" role="none" style="border-radius: inherit; font-family: inherit; inset: 0px; opacity: 0; pointer-events: none; position: absolute; transition-duration: var(--fds-duration-extra-extra-short-out); transition-property: opacity; transition-timing-function: var(--fds-animation-fade-out);"></div></div></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x193iq5w xeuugli x1r8uery x1iyjqo2 xs83m0k xg83lxy x1h0ha7o x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex: 1 1 0px; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 2px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><div aria-label="Leave a comment" class="x1i10hfl x1qjc9v5 xjbqb8w xjqpnuy xa49m3k xqeqjp1 x2hbi6w x13fuv20 xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xdl72j9 x2lah0s xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x2lwn1j xeuugli xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1n2onr6 x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1ja2u2z x1t137rt x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x3nfvp2 x1q0g3np x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline-flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="0"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 x1r8uery x1iyjqo2 xs83m0k xeuugli xl56j7k x6s0dn4 xozqiw3 x1q0g3np xn6708d x1ye3gou xexx8yu xcud41i x139jcc6 x4cne27 xifccgj xn3w4p2 xuxw1ft" style="align-items: center; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-flow: row; flex: 1 1 0px; font-family: inherit; height: 44px; justify-content: center; margin: -6px -4px; min-width: 0px; padding-left: 12px; padding-right: 12px; padding-top: 0px; position: relative; text-wrap: nowrap; z-index: 0;"><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli x150jy0e x1e558r4 x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 4px; position: relative; z-index: 0;"><i class="x1b0d499 x1d69dk1" data-visualcompletion="css-img" style="background-image: url("https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yS/r/t9H1Y8uTVJs.png"); background-position: 0px -598px; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: 26px 1536px; display: inline-block; filter: var(--filter-secondary-icon); height: 20px; vertical-align: -0.25em; width: 20px;"></i></div><div class="x9f619 x1n2onr6 x1ja2u2z x78zum5 xdt5ytf x2lah0s x193iq5w xeuugli x150jy0e x1e558r4 x10b6aqq x1yrsyyn" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; padding: 6px 4px; position: relative; 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font-weight: 600; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;">Send</span></div></div><div class="x1ey2m1c xds687c x17qophe xg01cxk x47corl x10l6tqk x13vifvy x1ebt8du x19991ni x1dhq9h x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m" data-visualcompletion="ignore" role="none" style="border-radius: inherit; font-family: inherit; inset: 0px; opacity: 0; pointer-events: none; position: absolute; transition-duration: var(--fds-duration-extra-extra-short-out); transition-property: opacity; transition-timing-function: var(--fds-animation-fade-out);"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="xzueoph" style="font-family: inherit; margin-bottom: 6px;"><div class="x8cjs6t x1ch86jh x80vd3b xckqwgs x1ejq31n xu3j5b3 x1q0q8m5 x26u7qi x178xt8z xm81vs4 xso031l xy80clv x12nagc x1d52u69 xktsk01" style="border-bottom-color: var(--divider); border-left-color: var(--divider); border-right-color: var(--divider); border-style: none solid solid; border-top-color: var(--divider); 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align-items: stretch; background-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-left-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-radius: inherit; border-right-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-style: solid; border-top-color: var(--always-dark-overlay); border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #385898; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: row; flex-shrink: 0; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation; user-select: none; z-index: 0;" tabindex="-1"><div class="x1rg5ohu x1n2onr6 x3ajldb x1ja2u2z" style="display: inline-block; font-family: inherit; position: relative; vertical-align: bottom; z-index: 0;"><svg aria-hidden="true" class="x3ajldb" data-visualcompletion="ignore-dynamic" role="none" style="height: 32px; width: 32px;"><mask id=":r5u:"><circle cx="16" cy="16" fill="white" r="16"></circle></mask><g mask="url(#:r5u:)"><image height="100%" preserveaspectratio="xMidYMid slice" style="height: 32px; 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padding: 8px 12px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="xt0psk2" style="display: inline; font-family: inherit;"><a aria-hidden="false" class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1a2a7pz x1heor9g xt0b8zv" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/571719226202845/user/100004175621140/?__cft__[0]=AZWE_kI1275c4Y_XS1BwCKmmKUiDgUOVP96nxPOKRWuJ5oJhfqryttCj7WemonkDINbs1xb4F4uG3sNY5uan6QAR2JmSZu4kCF3KMR29c0yeFhUUvihCNofTxzS-1MZc_phwrg0kZPtoN-lAX7YjJUNpEsv9SaEXsYeAZ0_ENoKI4V6ROkv0pEUwpvowr5SnDL8&__tn__=R]-R" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0"><span class="x3nfvp2" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x x4zkp8e x676frb x1nxh6w3 x1sibtaa x1s688f xzsf02u" color="var(--primary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.8125rem; font-weight: 600; line-height: 1.2308; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;">Cao Khánh</span></span></a></span></span><span class="x3nfvp2 xsgj6o6 x1kgmq87 xxymvpz" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; margin-left: 4px; margin-top: -2px; vertical-align: middle;"><span class="x3nfvp2 x1kgmq87 xsgj6o6" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; margin-left: 4px; margin-top: -2px;"><span class="x3nfvp2" style="display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x1rg5ohu" style="display: inline-block; font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="x6s0dn4 x1lcm9me x1yr5g0i xrt01vj x10y3i5r x3nfvp2 x1qx5ct2 x150jy0e x1e558r4 x1qhmfi1" style="align-items: center; background-color: var(--secondary-button-background); border-radius: 4px; display: inline-flex; font-family: inherit; height: 20px; padding-left: 4px; padding-right: 4px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x x4zkp8e x3x7a5m x1nxh6w3 x1sibtaa xo1l8bm xzsf02u" color="var(--primary-text)" dir="auto" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.8125rem; line-height: 1.2308; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><span class="x1lliihq x6ikm8r x10wlt62 x1n2onr6 xlyipyv xuxw1ft x1j85h84" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; overflow: hidden; padding-bottom: 1px; position: relative; text-overflow: ellipsis; text-wrap: nowrap;">Top Contributor</span></span></div></span></span></div></span></span></span></span></span><div class="x1lliihq xjkvuk6 x1iorvi4" style="font-family: inherit; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-top: 4px;"><span class="x193iq5w xeuugli x13faqbe x1vvkbs x1xmvt09 x1lliihq x1s928wv xhkezso x1gmr53x x1cpjm7i x1fgarty x1943h6x xudqn12 x3x7a5m x6prxxf xvq8zen xo1l8bm xzsf02u" color="var(--primary-text)" dir="auto" lang="en" style="display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.9375rem; line-height: 1.3333; max-width: 100%; min-width: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-word;"><div class="xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs" style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">Thank you for sharing. It’s inspiring to me that you continue to learn from John’s pointer throughout all these years and continue to do so earnestly.</div></div></span></div></div></div></div><div class="x1ve5b48 x177n6bx x10l6tqk x1ja2u2z xlshs6z" style="bottom: -11px; font-family: inherit; position: absolute; right: 2px; visibility: inherit; z-index: 0;"><div style="font-family: inherit;"><div style="font-family: inherit;"><div style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="x4k7w5x x1h91t0o x1h9r5lt x1jfb8zj xv2umb2 x1beo9mf xaigb6o x12ejxvf x3igimt xarpa2k xedcshv x1lytzrv x1t2pt76 x7ja8zs x1qrby5j" style="align-items: inherit; align-self: inherit; display: inherit; flex-direction: inherit; flex: inherit; font-family: inherit; height: inherit; max-height: inherit; max-width: inherit; min-height: inherit; min-width: inherit; place-content: inherit; width: inherit;"><div aria-label="1 reaction; see who reacted to this" class="x1i10hfl xjbqb8w x1ejq31n xd10rxx x1sy0etr x17r0tee x972fbf xcfux6l x1qhh985 xm0m39n x9f619 x1ypdohk xt0psk2 xe8uvvx xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x16tdsg8 x1hl2dhg xggy1nq x1o1ewxj x3x9cwd x1e5q0jg x13rtm0m x1n2onr6 x87ps6o x1lku1pv x1a2a7pz" role="button" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; 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background-color: transparent; border-style: none; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: var(--secondary-text); cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-family: inherit; font-weight: 700; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0">Reply</div></div></li></ul></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-90390994717185511982024-03-05T00:13:00.009+08:002024-03-14T00:17:58.268+08:00Conditionings are not due to self<p>Mr W.A:</p><p>Top Contributor</p><p>Soh, on retreat I had a great deal of energetic conditioning come up, and as they did, I realized that parts of my mind and body were "coming back online." There was an aha moment where I realized that the "ego" had never been anything more than the patterns in thought and feeling caused by these conditionings. Without them, there just isn't anything there to recognize. Even the very act of identifying is itself just a very strong and deep conditioning... literally something happening on the purely energetic level whose influence is mistaken to be a self. Noticing this dramatically accelerated things. While I still have a lot of conditioning left, it does feel like once this clicked, attention no longer looks for a self to blame, but rather just for the resistance held in the conditioning. This is practical and fruitful to practice. Just wanted to share, as it's a bit of a different way of talking about the sense of self, yet quite congruent with the teachings on right view, and has proven robustly accurate in my experience so far.</p><p>5d</p><p>Reply</p><p>Soh Wei Yu</p><p>Author</p><p>Admin</p><p>That's good.</p><p><span style="white-space-collapse: preserve;">Even more crucial is to realize the seal of anatta -- in thinking, there is always just thought without thinker. Seeing is, no seer, and so on and so forth. As you said, it just conditioning, and this implies a momentum of its own. Did you think that thought or did it just happen? It just happened, by its own momentum and conditionings. Something triggers you and some anger or fear arise, did you control or will it to occur? Did you choose to feel nasty or pissed off or moody or whatever? It just happened, due to the various conditions and triggers and one's latent tendencies and so on. Purely dependent origination, no agent or controller or thinker is involved here, and even 'ego' is just that patterning, that pure happening. If it were from a 'you', then 'you' would not have chosen to feel shitty/nasty/whatever, or 'you' would simply have chosen to only feel unconditional love, or some other nice mental states and not ruin an otherwise perfect day. But upon clear seeing, its just seen so clearly that mind/thoughts, body, consciousness, all those are not you, not yours, not due to a controller or agent.</span></p><p>Initially if you have had not the direct realization of one's radiance, Pure Presence, it will be skewed to the first stanza of anatta, towards non-doership which is also important, as described above. At this point it's also important realize one's radiance and to recognise whatever thoughts and sensory appearances as the display of one's radiance. Mature realization of anatta reveals both stanzas of anatta to be a seal, to be what is always already so.</p><p>So whatever thoughts arise, even conditionings, patternings, there is no need to reject, nor grasp at them, but simply recognise this seal of anatta to be always already the case, the nature of mind/thoughts/appearances. It doesn't matter whether it is a very strong emotion, conditioning, or a very normal or peaceful thought, they are all fuel for contemplating the nature of mind/consciousness/experience. Its nature (as is the nature of all mind/displays) is the union of luminous clarity and emptiness.</p><p><span style="white-space-collapse: preserve;">Also see: </span><br /><br /><a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html" style="background-color: #d9d7a6; color: #9e7b22; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 20px; text-decoration-line: none;">On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection</a><br /><br /><span style="white-space-collapse: preserve;">And </span><br /><br /><a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/11/few-excerpts-from-clarifying-natural.html" style="background-color: #d9d7a6; color: #9e7b22; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 20px; text-decoration-line: none;">Resolving That Thoughts and Perceptions are Buddha-Mind</a></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-52845673566892004692024-03-01T15:47:00.003+08:002024-03-11T15:48:33.423+08:00Integrating +A and -A<p> <span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody; font-size: 17px;">Ryan: “interesting I thought AtR emphasizes non-arising?</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody; font-size: 17px;"> </span> <span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody; font-size: 17px;">the perception that objects are not actually present at all”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Soh to Ryan Burton:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Atr / john tan emphasizes +a and -a (as described in the shorter atr practice guide and longer original atr guide)</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John Tan said years ago:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“No appearances just mean the conceptual notions of mind, appearances and external objects are all deconstructed.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">It doesn't mean a blank nothing.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Vivid Appearances will unfailingly manifest, that is what Mipham meant by coalescence of appearance and emptiness.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">From the perspective of mind (alaya), negation is non-affirming and thorough.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">From the non-conceptual gnosis standpoint, nothing is obstructed nor denied.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">What appears is unconditioned, spontaneous, natural and beyond elaborations.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">…</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">From ATR perspective that is -A. But it is also +A. </span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">For both shares similar taste if no-self nature is the focus instead of conceptualities.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Therefore study both masters Mipham and Tsongkhapa with respect and reverence and don't talk nonsense.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">If there is alternation between +A and -A, that is arya along the path. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>If there is no alternation, that is buddhahood.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">That is just my opinion.”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">——</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Ryan burton said</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Soh Wei Yu how would you describe non-arising experientially? </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">the blending of A+ and A- minus emptiness when I’ve done the contemplations opens a natural state of phenomena being immense, immediate but also transparent holographic-like. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>As if what’s arising is not actually there or present at all.”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Soh replied</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Designations Turn Alive</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John Tan said,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">When Dogen rows the boat, the rowing makes the boat a boat and makes the hand, the sea, wooden oars and the movement of the boat into the "rowing". The designations turns "alive" yet r like mere reflections.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Why is it like water pouring in water? Because one tastes the hand, the sea, the wooden oars going beyond their designated boundaries into one seamless (like pour water in water) action of rowing. There is no self, only that action of rowing.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">With anatta and dependent arising, u will feel immense inter-relatedness yet empty like reflections even in the world of conceptualities.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The father is dependent on the son and the son makes the father a father. Don't just look at the logic, see how much emotions and love are invested in them. There are no "things" and "world" other than that.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">So it is not about just that which is direct, clean, brilliance, non-dual, non-conceptual and transparent which is empty like space; u must re-enter the world, dirty ur hands and see conventionalities with this new found insights of selflessness and DO...see the whole chain of arisings...so intricate yet empty like reflections.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">André A. Pais: John Tan, good stuff! Is there more from where this came? </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John Tan: Hi André, some blah blah blah on the spur of the moment when Soh was discussing with me total exertion and emptiness. Intuitively I was sensing him skewing towards empty reflection in non-referential presence while attempting to integrate emptiness and total exertion at that time.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">So just brought out this “dependent designation” as it can serve as a bridge to link the two (empty reflection and total exertion).</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Sometimes we can latched on to the so called higher teachings of “already perfection”, “emptiness”, “no karma”, “no this and that” and subtly hypnotizing ourselves into a fabricated liberated state. This is precisely the question dogen had in mind, if we are already enlightened, why practice? If we have buddha-nature, why attain enlightenment? These questions set him on a journey to china in search of the answer. He came back with “practice-enlightenment”, we do not practice to get enlightened, we practice because we are enlightened – practice-enlightenment.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Therefore my intention is simply trying to bring out the point of not being afraid of self, not being afraid of cause and effect and dependencies, look directly into the world of samsara, look into the world of conventionalities and see the beauty of conceptualities. Even in market place, the taste of non-referential presence is never lost but fully present!</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">For articles about dogen and total exertion, I would recommend Ted Biringer. Ted has a unique way of triggering one into the taste of total exertion through seeing dependencies with his writings. As for write ups integrating emptiness, dependent designations and total exertion into a piece, I don’t think there is any…haha”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“.....</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The weight of thoughts -- Part 1</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">When contemplating, do not just let our contemplation remain as a mental reasoning exercise. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For example: </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">What appears is neither "internal" nor "external". For the notion of "internality" is dependent on the notion of "externality", without either, the sense of neither can arise. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Therefore both notions r merely conventional, they originates dependently.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Do not just let our contemplation remain at this level. If we do that, at most the freedom will simply remain at the mental level -- merely a pellucid, pure and clean state. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It is no different from practicing raw attention although insight on how conceptualities proliferate the mind may arise. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">But go further to relate directly to our sensations, thoughts, smells, colors, tastes, sounds and ask: </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">"What do we mean by thoughts are neither inside nor outside our head?" </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Seeing through this will be much more penetrating. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It will bring a deep sense of illusoriness and mystical awe as a real-time lived-experience.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">.....</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The weight of thoughts -- Part 2</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">How heavy are thoughts?</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Where are their roots? </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">It is not uncommon to hear in the spiritual circle phrases like "the 'I' is just a thought" or "thought is empty and spacious, there is no weight or root to it". </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">While the rootlessness and the space-like nature of "thoughts" should be pointed out, one must not be misled into thinking they have seen through "anything" much less up-rooted the deeply seated conceptual notions of "I/mine", "body/mind", "space/time"...etc. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">So emphasis must also be placed on the other side of the coin. "Thoughts" are astonishingly heavy like a black-hole (size of a pinhole, weight of a star); the roots of conceptual notions" they carry permeate our entire being and everywhere. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The "roots" of thoughts are no where to be found also means they can be found anywhere and everywhere, spreaded across the 3 times and 10 directions -- in modern context, over different time-lines across the multiverse. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>In other words, "this arises, that arises".</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">.....</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">In anatta, we see through self as a mental construct and one is set on a de-constructive journey to free oneself from all mental constructs, from self to all phenomena and the relationships among them.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">However when we see dependent arising, nothing is eliminated.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Conceptualization remains, parts remain, cause-effect remains, self remains, others remains...Everything remains, only the mistaken view of "essence" is relinquished.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Instead of seeing them to exist essentially, it is now understood that they originates dependently and whatever originates in dependence is free from the four pairs of extremes (aka 8 negations of Nagarjuna).</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Without understanding dependent arising and emptiness, spontaneous perfection free from all elaborations will be distorted.”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Some stuff i wrote before:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Earlier today i was awoken by a sound.. then it was intuited the sound is not something somewhere, has no location, no origin, no coming and no going, mere dependent origination</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">When looking at seaside sea waves it occurs to me the sea waves was also a good example of dependent origination</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Under imputation it appears sea waves are one thing that moves from one location to another (ultimately the sea shore). When seen carefully the sea wave is not actually one thing but actually countless of tiny waves and each moment of if the waving the patterns look entirely different. So one moment of wave and next moment of wave are neither the same not different but dependently originates. Every moment of waving is merely the dependent origination of all factors and consciousness dependently originating as the mere luminous appearance without anything there, no coming, no going, no arising, no abiding and no cessation</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John tan replied, “Quite good. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dependent arising is to help us overcome essense view. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>We don't really understand what freedom from "essence", normally weq use essential view to understand what is non-essential. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>When we keep practicing seeing emptiness and DO, everything turns insubstantial, essenceless without substance, intimate and seamless...from there on, u should quit "thinking" but learn to "feel" and sense directly and effortlessly. Taste radiance as appearances and no more "analyse" about it.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The language that structures <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>into subject-action-object is a clumsy and not a suitable way to express radiance, but that doesn't mean there is no way to express at all, it is just imo complex. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Like I told u before, mathematics is also a form of language that can allow us to understand patterns in a much deeper and flexible way. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But if one is untrained, it is difficult to communicate in that form of language or communicate like dogen.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Radiance is so mystical and magical, don't frame it with anything. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Once anatta matures, use ur entire body-mind to feel it's dynamism.”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">—-</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">(Inherent view) Its the sense that phenomena exists, arise and abide and cease and stands alone by itself. Like for example moon exist inside water or even just that the presence is something “just there”.. instead of the vivid appearance is empty and non arisen, a mere vivid shimmering that dependently originates, appears but nothing there, a vivid and luminous mirage. Even a minutest sense of something there blocks the vision of dependent origination and emptiness, union of appearance and emptiness . We feel the trees and flowers and sky are “just there” instead of like reflections in total exertion</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">….</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Actually nowadays in practice i dont really have much designations or referents.. its oceanic and boundless whether in sitting or movement. In a sense its similar to infinitude of universe like AF except there is no solidity.. its just dependent origination and emptiness in action like when you move the whole infinite net of indra reflects accordingly. The dependent origination its not like inherent cause and effect.. In moving its not like body interacting with environment but like infinite reflections in total exertion, like the whole universe is the movement not i moving. When sitting there is no me or body mind sitting like out of body into boundless and oceanic but there is no sense of a self expanding outward, just natural and spontaneous presence like whole universe is sitting. Gapless distanceless without boundaries and radiant but nothing there.. no seer, no seeing, nothing seen and also no universe to ground in.. i dunno if im skewing to radiance but i seldom engage in analysis nowadays. Or its good for me to do more analysis</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">——</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John tan also wrote:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Ic. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Next time just total exertion of whole immense arising and empty...see can 相应”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">John tan wrote many comments but too long to post”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3225985453951330898.post-26242698251231261682024-03-01T14:35:00.005+08:002024-03-15T14:37:20.538+08:00Nirvana is Not Nirodha Samapatti<p>Wrote these to someone who argued that nirodha samapatti (cessation of perceptions and feelings) is equivalent to nibbana/nirvana.</p><p><br /></p><p>I told him he is definitely wrong.</p><p><br /></p><p>Soh:</p><p><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Nibbana literally means cessation. However, it is not the cessation of perception and feeling (nirodha samapatti).</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">As Geoff (Author of Measureless Mind, see: <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-meaning-of-nirvana.html?m=1">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-meaning-of-nirvana.html</a> and <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html?m=1">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html</a>) wrote,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“</span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">Firstly, nibbana isn't a "state." Secondly, nibbana is the cessation of passion, aggression, and delusion. For a learner it is the cessation of the fetters extinguished on each path. The waking states where "suddenly all sensations and six senses stop functioning" are (1) mundane perceptionless samadhis, and (2) cessation of apperception and feeling. Neither of these are supramundane and neither of these are synonymous with experiencing nibbana.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">All the best,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">Geoff”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">Liberation is the cessation of dukkha, it is the end of appropriating aggregates (see: <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/08/what-does-it-mean-that-appropriated.html?m=1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody; font-style: normal;">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/08/what-does-it-mean-that-appropriated.html</span></a>) in terms of I and mine, however it is not an unconscious state. Instead, as Geoff wrote,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"><a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html</a></span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“AN 4.24 Kāḷakārāma Sutta:</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Thus, monks, the Tathāgata does not conceive an [object] seen when seeing what is to be seen. He does not conceive an unseen. He does not conceive a to-be-seen. He does not conceive a seer. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">He does not conceive an [object] heard when hearing what is to be heard. He does not conceive an unheard. He does not conceive a to-be-heard. He does not conceive a hearer. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">He does not conceive an [object] sensed when sensing what is to be sensed. He does not conceive an unsensed. He does not conceive a to-be-sensed. He does not conceive a senser. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">He does not conceive an [object] known when knowing what is to be known. He does not conceive an unknown. He does not conceive a to-be-known. He does not conceive a knower.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">…</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">This is the freedom of absence which is revealed through the complete recognition of selflessness. Ud 1.10 Bāhiya Sutta:</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">‘The seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known.’ This is how you should train, Bāhiya. </span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">When, Bāhiya, for you the seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known, then Bāhiya, you will not be that. When, Bāhiya, you are not that, then Bāhiya, you will not be there. When, Bāhiya, you are not there, then Bāhiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor between-the-two. Just this is the end of unsatisfactoriness.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">…</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The awakened mind is measureless (appamāṇacetasa), free from any sort of measuring (pamāṇa). In evocative terms, an awakened one is deep (gambhīra), boundless (appameyya), and fathomless (duppariyogāḷha). Utterly free from any reference to specifically fabricated consciousness (viññāṇasaṅkhayavimutta). “Gone” (atthaṅgata), the measureless mind is untraceable (ananuvejja) even here and now. It doesn’t abide in the head, or in the body, or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn’t have size or shape. It’s not an object or a subject.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Just as the sky is formless and non-illustrative, the measureless mind is non-illustrative and non-indicative (anidassana). This effortless clarity is unmediated by any specific fabrication or volitional intention. It is unaffected knowing: The seen is merely the seen (diṭṭhamatta). The heard is merely the heard (sutamatta). The sensed is merely the sensed (mutamatta). The known is merely the known (viññātamatta). But there is no </span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">you</span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"> there. Of course, this liberating gnosis and vision can’t adequately be pointed out or indicated by words alone. It is to be individually experienced (paccatta veditabba).”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">------</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">No, you are not providing any scriptural citation, and you will never find any scriptural citations that state nirodha samapatti = nibbana. To state nirodha samapatti is nibbana is wrong view. Buddha never taught that. The third noble truth is specifically the cessation of craving, or the three poisons of passion, aggression and delusion. It has nothing to do with nirodha samapatti.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Nirodhasamāpatti is an actual meditative attainment but it is not nibbana.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">And whatever teachers that taught that nibbana is nirodha samapatti is wrong and mistaken.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">And as Geoff said,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Excerpt from <a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-meaning-of-nirvana.html">https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-meaning-of-nirvana.html</a></span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"><a href="https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-meaning-of-nirvana.html"></a></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">The suttas define and describe the goal in sufficient terms. The difficulty in this discussion relates to whether one accepts what the canon states about the fruition of the path, or alternatively, accepts much later commentarial interpretations of the "path-moment" and "fruition-moment" as re-interpreted by a few 20th century Burmese monks. Without sufficient common ground for discussion there isn't much possibility of meaningful dialogue.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">.........</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">I was just paraphrasing the professor's own words. Karunadasa's The Dhamma Theory: Philosophical Cornerstone of the Abhidhamma:</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">What emerges from this Abhidhammic doctrine of dhammas is a critical realism, one which recognizes the distinctness of the world from the experiencing subject yet also distinguishes between those types of entities that truly exist independently of the cognitive act and those that owe their being to the act of cognition itself.</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">He goes on to say that "a dhamma is a truly existent thing (sabhÄ�vasiddha)." This is a completely realist view. And the inevitable consequence entailed by this realist view, wherein all conditioned dhammas are "truly existing things," is that path cognitions and fruition cognitions of each of the four paths and fruits must occur within an utterly void vacuum state cessation, which is considered to be the ultimately existent "unconditioned." This is described by Jack Kornfield:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">In Mahasi’s model, enlightenment—or at least stream-entry, the first taste of nirvana—comes in the form of a cessation of experience, arising out of the deepest state of concentration and attention, when the body and mind are dissolved, the experience of the ordinary senses ceases, and we rest in perfect equanimity. We open into that which is unconditioned, timeless, and liberating: nirvana.... But there are a lot of questions around this kind of moment. Sometimes it seems to have enormously transformative effects on people. Other times people have this moment of experience and aren’t really changed by it at all. Sometimes they’re not even sure what happened.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">This notion of path and fruition cognitions is not supported by the Pali canon. Moreover, there are now numerous people who've had such experiences sanctioned by "insight meditation" teachers, and who have gone on to proclaim to the world that arahants can still experience lust and the other defiled mental phenomena. Taking all of this into account there is no good reason whatsoever to accept this interpretation of path and fruition cognitions. Void vacuum state cessations are not an adequate nor reliable indication of stream entry or any of the other paths and fruitions.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">All the best,</span></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Geoff”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">—-</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">My point is that Mahasi is wrong about this point. I do not wish to go into the details of his wrong views but suffice to say, he or his students misunderstood the stream entry moment as a blackout cessation. This is not the same as the actual attainment of stream entry as explained in <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20">https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20</a></span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">By the way, all Arahants have attained nibbana, but not all arahants have experienced nirodha samapatti.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Geoff:</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Hi Zom & all,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">All four main Nikāya-s define right concentration (sammāsamādhi) as the </span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">four</span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"> jhāna-s (D ii 313, M iii 252, S v 10, A ii 25). AN 3.88 (A i 235) lists the </span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">four</span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"> jhāna-s as the training of heightened mind (adhicittasikkhā). SN 48.10 (S v 198) lists the </span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">four</span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"> jhāna-s as the faculty of concentration (samādhindriya) as practiced by a noble disciple (ariyasāvaka). AN 5. 14 (A iii 11) lists the </span><span class="s2" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody; font-style: italic;">four</span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"> jhāna-s as the strength of concentration (samādhibala) as practiced by a noble disciple (ariyasāvaka). Moreover, SN 12.70 (S ii 121) and AN 4.87 (A ii 87) both state that there are arahants who don't have the formless attainments. And of 500 arahants mentioned in SN 8.7 (S i 191), only 60 are said to be liberated both ways (i.e. have mastery of the formless attainments).</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Also, in the Dhammasaṅgaṇi, where the distinction is made between mundane form sphere jhāna (rūpāvacarajjhāna) and formless sphere jhāna (arūpāvacarajjhāna) on the one hand, and supramundane jhāna (lokuttarajjhāna) needed for all four paths on the other hand, supramundane jhāna is defined exclusively as the four jhāna-s (or five by dividing the first jhāna into two).</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">In none of these instances are the four formless attainments or the cessation attainment ever mentioned in the context of right concentration as a component of the noble eightfold path. Thus your equating nibbāna with the cessation of apperception and feeling is unsustainable, since it is entirely possible to realize nibbāna without ever experiencing the cessation attainment.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">All the best,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Geoff”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Nibbāna is the realization of the noble truth of the cessation of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhanirodha ariyasacca), which is not synonymous with nirodhasamāpatti. DN 22:</span></p><ul class="ul1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><li class="li1" style="font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s3" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px;"></span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving [for sensual pleasure, craving existence, craving non-existence].</span></li></ul><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Your interpretation of the supramundane paths and fruitions is not supported by the Pāli Tipiṭaka. This has already been pointed out on <a href="https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6950#p110672"><span class="s4" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed;">this thread</span></a>. Your interpretation of fruition attainment isn't supported by the Pāli Tipiṭaka either.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">All the best,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Geoff”</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">“Hi Zom,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Even in the Visuddhimagga the cessation attainment (nirodhasamāpatti), a.k.a. the cessation of apperception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodha), while nominally mentioned as similar to nibbāna in a couple of passages, nevertheless is not the same as nibbāna. Visuddhimagga 23.52: </span></p><ul class="ul1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><li class="li1" style="font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s3" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px;"></span><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">As to the question: Is the attainment of cessation formed or unformed, etc.? It is not classifiable as formed or unformed, mundane or supramundane. Why? Because it has no individual essence. But since it comes to be attained by one who attains it, it is therefore permissible to say that it is produced, not unproduced.</span></li></ul><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">It also can't be designated as the same as nibbāna because, as the Visuddhimagga points out, the cessation attainment requires mastery of the four formless attainments before it can be entered. Since there are arahants who haven't developed the formless attainments, they are incapable of attaining the cessation of apperception and feeling. Nevertheless, they are fully liberated through discernment.</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">All the best,</span></p><p class="p2" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; min-height: 22px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"></span><br /></p><p class="p1" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-feature-settings: normal; font-kerning: auto; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 17px; font-stretch: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variation-settings: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;"><span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;">Geoff”</span></p><div class="blogger-post-footer">Post Feed</div>Sohhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16416159880942160813noreply@blogger.com1