Also see:

Vipassana Must Go With Luminous Manifestation
Four Foundations of Mindfulness: The Direct Path to Liberation
Vipassana
Mindfulness as Remembrance

A note by Soh: "The problem is that most vipassana teachers are missing the anatta insight and the way they teach doesnt directly lead to insight.

Their anatta understanding is still inferential, even if they have peak experiences of some aspects of no-self. It is not the same as what we call the realisation of anatman.

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/vipassana-must-go-with-luminous.html

It will be good that when doing vipassana, at the same time you contemplate experientially the two stanzas of anatta or bahiya sutta, that will lead to the anatman breakthrough

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html "



Thusness, 2005~2007:

Ck: john, how to practise vipassana in daily life?
Thusness: just observe every sensation.
Thusness: until one day u are able to experience "emptiness as form".
Thusness: then it becomes effortless.
Thusness: Truthz u cannot imagine the bliss when one clearly experiences that.
Thusness: but there is no point to over stress anything.
Thusness: :)
Ck: Thusness just observe every sensation... give me an eg?
Thusness: when u breath, u don't have to care what is the right way of breathing, whether u breath hard or soft, smooth or fine...just experience as much clarity as u can...just that experience...regardless of what it is like.
Thusness: same for all other experiences.
Ck: wot abt sound? hows it?
Thusness: when u hear, just the sound...the totality of the sound. There is no how but just to do away with all abitary thoughts. Hear the sound as clear as u can be.
Ck: then wot abt thots?
Ck: thots r v sticky Sad
Thusness: thoughts seldom arise if the practice is correct. If it arises, then not to chase after its meaning. Not to answer urself what it means, not to dwell in 'what'...then u will resort to just the moment of awareness.
Ck: when i try to be just openly aware, i notice that i jump from sense to sense
Ck: like one moment hearing, then touch, etc
Thusness: that is okie.
Thusness: our nature is so.
Ck: wots the rite way to do it
Thusness: don't think that u should concentrate.
Thusness: ur only duty is to sense with as much clarity as possible.
Ck: and for all the sensations, i dun dwell in the 'what'?
Thusness: ur mind is looking for a way, a method
Thusness: but what that is needed is only the clarity.
Thusness: however because our mind is so molded and affect by our habitual propensities, it becomes difficult what that is direct and simple.
Thusness: just stop asking 'how', 'what', 'why'.
Thusness: and submerge into the moment.
Thusness: and experience.
Thusness: i prefer u to describe.
Thusness: not to ask how, what, why, when, where and who.
Thusness: only this is necessary.
Ck: ok
Thusness: if u practice immediately, u will understand.
Thusness: if u entertain who, what, where, when and how, u create more propensities and dull ur own luminosity.

Ck: i shuffle btw self inquiry, observing sensations n thots, being aware... its ok rite
Thusness: yes
Ck: means start work i'll hv even more propensities...
Thusness: that is when u do not understand what awareness, but it is true to certain extend. :)

.....

(10:07 PM) Thusness: tell me what u think is awareness?
(10:07 PM) Thusness: in ur own words
(10:07 PM) Thusness: just say
(10:08 PM) AEN: just the knowingness, the sensation or thoughts etc
(10:09 PM) Thusness: look at the skin of ur hands
(10:09 PM) AEN: ok
(10:09 PM) Thusness: looks real?
(10:09 PM) AEN: yea
(10:09 PM) Thusness: touch it...feel it as much as u can
(10:10 PM) Thusness: can u don't think of a background
(10:10 PM) AEN: yea
(10:10 PM) Thusness: and know that, that is awareness?
(10:10 PM) AEN: ya
(10:10 PM) Thusness: that is all.


.....

[22:37] <^john^> so far what do u understand about awareness?
[22:38] hmm like u say lor... awareness is never lost
[22:39] <^john^> what is awareness right now?
[22:39] <^john^> when u say thought arises, is thought awareness?
[22:41] thought is not awareness, but there is awareness of thought
[22:41] lol
[22:41] <^john^> so what is thought?
[22:42] <^john^> and where is awareness?
[22:42] <^john^> same like taste, is the taste awareness?
[22:45] i think u cant define awareness to a 'thing' Razz
[22:45] <^john^> so is taste or thought a thing? :)
[22:47] <^john^> u practice meditation now right?
[22:47] <^john^> :)
[22:47] never practise for quite some time Razz
[22:47] taste or thought is not a thing
[22:47] lol
[22:49] <^john^> so do u think awareness is a party behind thinking thought or experiencing taste?
[22:49] <^john^> :)
[22:49] <^john^> lol
[22:49] no
[22:49] <^john^> taste is not a thing, then what is it?
[22:50] just the awareness
[22:50] <^john^> experience this awareness with totality. :)

.....

(12:21 AM) Thusness: what is the role of insight meditation?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: why bare attention?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: why naked awareness?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: when insight meditation is taught and buddha said when hearing jsut the sound...this and that...
(12:23 AM) Thusness: what buddha wanted is to experience directly what awareness is, the arising, the ceasing, the clarity, the non-dual nature
(12:23 AM) Thusness: in DO
(12:24 AM) AEN_____: icic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: not to note it with thought or place any conclusion on any experience.
(12:25 AM) Thusness: "this is impermanence" is not about noting and place any conclusion about an phenomenon arising.
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but experience impermanence directly, not in words
(12:26 AM) AEN_____: icic.. yea
(12:26 AM) Thusness: be impermanence and know what is it really...
(12:26 AM) Thusness: see what clarity is, not what it should be
(12:27 AM) Thusness: it is luminous and yet empty...experience it directly...it is so.
(12:27 AM) AEN_____: icic..
(12:27 AM) Thusness: break the solidity until there is no holding simply thus.
(12:28 AM) Thusness:    don't watch...there is no watcher...there is just momentary manifestation and that is already luminosity and emptiness
(12:31 AM) AEN:    but in conventional saying we say often say watching mah haha
(12:31 AM) AEN:    easier to understand
(12:31 AM) Thusness:    yeah but i am not toking about conventional or ultimate
(12:31 AM) Thusness:    if it is just a form of expression there is nothing wrong with it.
(12:32 AM) Thusness:    but the fact is we are really experiencing it as if there is a watcher...that is the problem.





.....

2007:

(10:03 PM) Thusness:    lately i have been experiencing more vividly "Emptiness as form". insight meditation (vipassana) like what buddha taught is very important. when seeing, just the seen. when hearing, just the heard
(10:04 PM) AEN:              oic isn't this non duality 
(10:04 PM) Thusness:    yeah… but the depth of clarity. it is difficult for me to tell you. just train yourself into that.. if you didn’t, your life will be wasted. even with all the things i tell you. :) after non duality, you must experience until at least this level, "Emptiness as form"
(10:06 PM) AEN:              btw emptiness as form is not form as emptiness? it's like the dharma dan heart sutra model
(10:06 PM) AEN:              first is form as form, then emptiness is emptiness, then form is emptiness, then emptiness is form ?
(10:06 PM) Thusness:    just the manifestation until tremendous clarity.
(10:06 PM) Thusness:    no need… just non-dual and the depth of non-duality

"14/06/2006

Reply part 1:

Is Absorption not aware of other things?  This is difficult to say.  Although many articles and books about mindfulness seem to suggest that it is so, this is not necessarily true when we progress towards the more subtle experience. Clarity can come a time where it is so clear that it is an absorption, it is a sort of Insight-Absorption but It is different from absorption derived from concentration.  It is clarity absorption where it touches the heart of 'things', that is itself.  For example being taste itself, it is absorbed yet completely clear.  This is truly blissful and beyond description.  I have not come across any book touching this yet and I hope Toni's new book can write something about it. :)
 
Reply part 2:

The AMness can be said to be a form of absorption where the object of concentration is the Self.  It can be a question "Who am I" that leads one to the experience of the subject-object becoming one.  Till a point the practitioner simply experiences a pure sense of existence.  However such mode of experience has no understanding of its luminous clarity and its nature as anatta.  The key point about mindful awareness is there is no keeping of the mind on anything and by not resting on anything, it fuses into everything; therefore it cannot be concentrated; rather it is to relax into nothingness empty of self, empty of any artificial doing so that the natural luminosity can take its own course.  There is no focusing, there is only allowing the mirror bright clarity to shine with it natural radiance.  In essence there is no one there, only the phenomenon arising and ceasing telling their stories." - John Tan, 2006



 

Session Start: Monday, April 13, 2009

 

(8:54 PM) AEN:           s4bnw: Let's do some inference. The direct path provides a direct way of realising our buddha nature, which is in effect, directly helping one to progress faster, spiritually-wise compared to those who take the gradual path, which means they take more time and more round-about way to see buddha nature, isn't it?

(9:44 PM) Thusness:  yes

(9:45 PM) Thusness:  in general yes. it also depends on a practitioner dedication. Buddha said b4 if one can be fully vipassanic for 7 days, one can reach full enlightenment right? if a person can have that sort of crystal clarity like "I AMness" in all arising sensations for day and night 7 days, I believe he will reach enlightenment

(9:48 PM) AEN:           oic..

(9:50 PM) Thusness:  like I hear sound, till it becomes "I AMness", crystal clarity...till it burns away all labels, all divisions, just crystal clear SOUND.  If all whatever arises can have that sort of clarity, pristineness, then I can't imagine...if the concentration is that great. :)

(9:51 PM) Thusness:  actually it is crystal clarity and effortlessness. to me it can only be done when a practitioner already penetrate the deepest nature of non dual awareness.  That is why he knows why and how deep within him.

(9:52 PM) Thusness:  it is this non-dual clarity

(9:52 PM) AEN:           icic..

(9:55 PM) AEN:           btw then gradual path is what

You mean what you said is direct path?

(9:55 PM) Thusness:  gradual

then it is the same. like do vipassana till one is able to do that.

(9:55 PM) AEN:           oic..

(9:56 PM) Thusness:  realisation is only one knows the how and why... but that is already quite a deep realisation

(9:56 PM) Thusness:  after stabilizing non-dual then one knows why

why buddha taught vipassana. that crystal clear mirror presence yet empty.

(9:58 PM) AEN:           icic..

(10:00 PM) Thusness:            actually if we can have the fullest and effortless experience of this non-dual mirror presence, then nothing matters. whether DO or Brahman, it is the same.

(10:01 PM) AEN:         wat do you mean

(10:02 PM) Thusness:            means at the greatest clarity and completely effortless experience of our non-dual mirror presence, there is no difference. at that point, there are no concepts, labelling, self, views... it is just complete oneness and reality. so no difference

(10:03 PM) AEN:         but non dual is not yet emptiness insight rite

(10:03 PM) Thusness:            emptiness or DO are also raft... if one can completely dissolve the last trace without any views, then there is no difference. just simply naked awareness, that is sufficient. however we don't know what is naked awareness. we have only a very very vague idea of what non-dual awareness is.

 

For those that experience Eternal Witness, they thought they know...but in truth, only a glimpse... therefore one undergo non-dual, anatta, emptiness and then spontaneous perfection. if we can fully experience non-dual mirror like Awareness in full effortlessness, then we have to be empty, centerless and traceless. otherwise there is no true effortlessness and spontaneity. most likely it will be a contrived experience

(10:07 PM) AEN:         u mean through concentration?

(10:08 PM) Thusness:            without understanding of DO and emptiness. because our existing dualistic and inherent views is the cause of that contrivance

(10:10 PM) AEN:         oic..

(10:17 PM) Thusness:            what s4bnw said is quite true. don't argue for nothing. direct path is not for everyone and u have not face the problem yet.

 

..................

 

2007:

 

(10:50 PM) Thusness:

at the more refine level of non dual experience, when the sense of self is gone to a great level, there is absolutely nothing but only everything...what does that mean? many though said so but is still not there even he is already at the level of non dual.

(10:51 PM) AEN:

not where?

(10:51 PM) Thusness:

he must feel completely nothing and only the 'concreteness', 'solidness', realness... must feel the 'solidness' and that is things.... that is awareness

(10:51 PM) AEN:

Oic. Thusness says:

many though said so but is still not there even he is already at the level of non dual. --> huh not where?

(10:52 PM) Thusness:

there are different level of non-dual experience. feeling crystal clarity and 'no one there' is the same as only the solidness, hardness, sound, vividness, realness. that 'sense of self' must be completely gone. :) you must remember this.

(10:55 PM) AEN:

oic.. this is like mindfulness rite

(10:56 PM) Thusness:

so now you know why buddha teach mindfulness? and why advaita din. :) this is important. it is the direct way. you c, the teaching and the practice is in line.

(10:57 PM) AEN:

oic..

(10:57 PM) Thusness:

so non-dual as in no-self. into impermanence and just the manifestation and DO and authenticate this with insight meditation. however it is taught wrongly. :P

(10:58 PM) AEN:

icic

(10:58 PM) Thusness:

but when one experience deeper and understand better, why buddha taught and said those things will become clear. you will realise that advaita always tok about the Self. but when a person tat is enlightened, he doesn't like to use this word. Self is a by-product. it is the production of thought.

 

(11:00 PM) Thusness:

even if you call it Brahman, it is still sinking back to a source. but when one gets clearer and clearer, and know more about manifestation. there is only arising and ceasing of phenomenon according to conditions. that is dharmakaya. it is understood in crystal clarity.

 

(11:02 PM) Thusness:

just understand that there is no self until it sinks to the inmost consciousness. and know the different layers of consciousness but do not think that it is different type of consciousness

 


.........

 

“It is extremely difficult to express what is ‘Isness’. Isness is awareness as forms. It is a pure sense of presence yet encompassing the ‘transparent concreteness’ of forms. There is a crystal clear sensations of awareness manifesting as the manifold of phenomenal existence. If we are vague in the experiencing of this ‘transparent concreteness’ of Isness, it is always due to that ‘sense of self’ creating the sense of division… ...you must stress the ‘form’ part of awareness. It is the ‘forms’, it is the ‘things’.” - John Tan, 2007
 
 
 
 
....
 
 
Someone asked, "A quick question about Thusness Vipassanaa.

It's about clarity right?

Like when I focus on sound, I can see that mind sort of created a visual to describe sound and "color" it, but even without the mind there is clear knowing. The sound without mind's coloring is borderless."
 
 
Soh replied:
 
You must experience the intensity of luminosity:

“Good insight. Stability of experience has a predictable relationship with the unfolding and deepening of insights. For example how seamless and effortless can non-dual experience be, if in the back of one's mind, subtle views of duality and inherency and tendencies continue to surface and affect our moment to moment experience - for example conjuring an unchanging source or mind that results in a perpetual tendency to sink back and referencing experience back to a source.

For example even after it is seen that everything is a manifestation of awareness or mind, there might still be subtle tendencies to reference back to a source, awareness or mind and therefore the transience is not appreciated in full. Nondual is experienced but one sinks back into substantial nonduality - there is always a referencing back to a base, an "awareness" that is nevertheless inseparable from all phenomena.

If one arises the insight that our ideas of an unchanging source, awareness or mind is just another thought - that there is simply thought after thought, sight after sight, sound after sound, and there isn't an inherent or unchanging "awareness", "mind", "source". Non-dual becomes implicit and effortless when there is the realisation that what awareness, seeing, hearing really is, is just the seen... The heard... The transience... The transience itself rolls and knows, no knower or other "awareness" can be found. Like there is no river apart from flowing, no wind apart from blowing, each noun implies its verb... Similarly awareness is simply the process of knowing not separated from the known. Scenery sees, music hears. Because there is nothing unchanging, independent, ultimate apart from the transience, there is no more sinking back to a source and instead there is full comfort resting as the transience itself.

Lastly do continue practicing the intensity of luminosity... When looking at tennis ball just sense the tennis ball fully.... Without thinking of a source, background, observer, self. Just the tennis ball as a luminous light. When breathing... Just the breathe... When seeing scenery, just sights, shapes and colours - intensely luminous and vivid without an agent or observer. When hearing music... Sound of bird chirping, the crickets… Just that - chirp chirp. A zen master noted upon his awakening... When I am hearing the bell ringing, there is no I and no bell... Just the ringing. The direct experiencing of no-mind and intensity of luminosity.. This is the purpose of the practice of the four foundations of mindfulness that is taught by the Buddha.” - Soh, 2011



And you must give rise to insight of anatta: Vipassana Must Go With Luminous Manifestation
 
Therefore contemplating on the two stanzas of anatta (see: On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection ) and bahiya sutta (see: The Buddha on Non-Duality ) is important as part of vipassana contemplation to guide the mind to penetrate view of self/Self and realise anatta


From a very famous Chinese Ch'an master of the 20th century, and a major proponent of the Hua Tou method of self enquiry. Similar to Ramana Maharshi.





Also See: Who am I? by Ramana Maharshi and
Book Recommendations 2019 and Practice Advise
Essentials Of Chan Practice part 1 & 2 -Master Hsu-Yun
 (source)
PART 1

The Prerequisites and Understanding Necessary to Begin Chan Practice

1. The Objective of Chan Practice

The objective of Chan practice is to illuminate the mind by eradicating its impurities and seeing into one’s true self-nature. The mind’s impurities are wrong thoughts and attachments. Self nature is the wisdom and virtue of the Tathagata. The wisdom and virtue of Buddhas and sentient beings are not different from one another. To experience this wisdom and virtue, leave behind duality, discrimination, wrong thinking and attachment. This is Buddhahood. If one cannot do this, then one remains an ordinary sentient being.
The prerequisite for Chan practice is to eradicate wrong thinking. Sakyamuni Buddha taught much on this subject. His simplest and most direct teaching is the word “stop” from the expression “stopping is Bodhi.” From the time when Bodhidharma transmitted Chan teachings to today, the winds of Chan have blown far and wide, shaking and illuminating the world. Among the many things that Bodhidharma and the Sixth Patriarch taught to those who came to study with them, none is more valuable than the saying, “Put down all entangling conditions, let not one thought arise.”
This expression is truly the prerequisite of Chan. If you cannot fulfil this requirement, then not only will you fail to attain the ultimate goal of Chan practice, but you will not even be able to enter the door of Chan. How can you talk of practicing Chan if you are entangled by worldly phenomena with thought after thought arising and passing away?

2. Put Down All Entangling Conditions

“Put down all entangling conditions, let not one thought arise” is a prerequisite for the practice of Chan. Now that we know this, how do we accomplish it? The best practitioner, one of superior abilities, can stop all thoughts forever, arrive directly at the condition of non-arising, and instantly experience Bodhi. Such a person is not entangled by anything.The next best kind of practitioner uses principle to cut off phenomena and realises that self-nature is originally pure. Vexation and Bodhi, Samsara and Nirvana – all are false names which have nothing to do with one’s self-nature. All things are dreams and illusions, like bubbles or reflections.
Within self-nature, my body, made up of the four great elements, as well as the mountains, rivers and great earth itself are like bubbles in the sea, arising and disappearing, yet never obstructing the original surface. Do not be captivated by the arising, abiding, changing and passing away of illusory phenomena, which give rise to pleasure and aversion, grasping and rejecting. Give up your whole body, as if you were dead, and the six sense organs, the six sense objects and six sense conciousnesses will naturally disperse. Greed, hatred, ignorance and love will be destroyed. All the sensations of pain, suffering and pleasure which attend the body – hunger, cold, satiation, warmth, glory, insult, birth and death, calamity, prosperity, good and bad luck, praise, blame, gain and loss, safety and danger – will no longer be your concern. Only this can be considered true renunciation – when you put everything down forever. This is what is meant by renouncing all phenomena.
When all phenomena are renounced, wrong thoughts disappear, discrimination does not arise, and attachment is left behind. When thoughts no longer arise, the brightness of self-nature manifests itself completely. At this time you will have fulfilled the necessary conditions for Chan practice. Then, further hard work and sincere practice will enable you to illuminate the mind and see into your true nature.

3. Everyone Can Instantly Become a Buddha

Many Chan practitioners ask questions about the Dharma. The Dharma that is spoken is not the true Dharma. As soon as you try to explain things, the true meaning is lost. When you realize that “one mind” is the Buddha, from that point on there is nothing more to do. Everything is already complete. All talk about practice or attainment is demonic deception.
Bodhidharma’s “Direct pointing at the mind, seeing into one’s nature and attaining Buddhahood” clearly states that all sentient beings are Buddhas. Once pure self-nature is recognized, one can harmonize with the environment yet remain undefiled. The mind will remain unified throughout the day, whether walking, standing, sitting or lying down. This is to already be a Buddha. At this point there is no need to put forth effort and be diligent. Any action is superfluous. No need to bother with the slightest thought or word. Therefore, to become a Buddha is the easiest, most unobstructed task. Do it by yourself. Do not seek outside yourself for it.
The vow to deliver all sentient beings, made by all the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas and patriarchs, is not a boast nor is it a baseless, empty vow. The Dharma is exactly that. It has been elucidated again and again by the Buddha and the patriarchs. They have exhorted us with the truth. They do not deceive us.

4. Investigating Chan and Contemplating Mind

Our sect focuses on investigating Chan. The purpose of practising Chan is to “Illuminate the mind and see into one’s true nature.” This investigation is also called “Clearly realizing one’s self-mind and completely perceiving one’s original nature.”
Since the time when Buddha held up a flower and Bodhidharma came from the East, the methods for entry into this Dharma door have continually evolved. Most Chan practitioners, before the T’ang and Sung dynasties, became enlightened after hearing a word or half a sentence of the Dharma. The transmission from master to disciple was the sealing of Mind with Mind. There was no fixed Dharma. Everyday questions and answers untied the bonds. It was nothing more than prescribing the right medicine for the right illness.
After the Sung dynasty, however, people did not have such good karmic roots as their predecessors. They could not carry out what had been said. For example, practitioners were taught to “Put down everything” and “Not think about good or evil,” but they could not do it. They could not put down everything, and if they weren’t thinking about good, they were thinking about evil. Under these circumstances, the patriarchs had no choice but to use poison to fight poison, so they taught the method of investigating gongans (ie. Koans) and hua-t’ous.1
When one begins looking into a hua-t’ou, one must grasp it tightly, never letting go. It is like a mouse trying to chew its way out of a coffin. It concentrates on one point. The mouse doesn’t try different places and it doesn’t stop until it gets through. Thus, in terms of hua-t’ou, the objective is to use one thought to eradicate innumerable other thoughts. This method is a last resort, just as if someone had been pierced by a poison arrow, drastic measures must be taken to cure the patient.
The ancients used gongans, but later on practitioners started using hua-t’ou. Some hua-t’ous are: “Who is dragging this corpse around?” “Before you were born what was your original face?” and “Who is reciting the Buddha’s name?”
In fact, all hua-t’ous are the same. There is nothing uncommon, strange or special about them. If you wanted to, you could say: “Who is reciting the sutras?” “Who is reciting the mantras?” “Who is prostrating to the Buddha?” “Who is eating?” “Who is wearing these clothes?” “Who is walking?” “Who is sleeping?” They are all the same. The answer to the question “who” is derived from one’s Mind. Mind is the origin of all words. Thoughts come out of Mind; Mind is the origin of all thoughts. Innumerable Dharmas generate from the Mind; Mind is the origin of all Dharmas. In fact, hua-t’ou is a thought. Before a thought arises, that is Mind. Before a thought arises there is the origin of words. Hence, looking into a hua-t’ou is contemplating Mind. There was Mind before your parents gave birth to you, so looking into your original face before you were born is contemplating Mind.
Self-nature is Mind. When one turns inward to hear one’s self-nature, one is turning inward to contemplate Mind. In the phrase, “Perfectly illuminating pure awareness,” pure awareness is Mind and illumination is contemplation. Mind is Buddha. When one recites Buddha’s name one contemplates Buddha. Contemplating Buddha is contemplating Mind.
Investigating hua-t’ou or “looking into who is reciting Buddha’s name ” is contemplating Mind. Hence contemplating Mind is contemplating pure awareness. It is also illuminating the Buddha-nature within oneself. Mind is nature, pure awareness, Buddha. Mind has no form, no characters, no directions; it cannot be found in any particular place. It cannot be grasped. Originally, Mind is purity, universally embracing all Dharma realms. No in or out, no coming or going. Originally, Mind is pure Dharmakaya.
When investigating hua-t’ou, the practitioner should first close down all six sense organs and seek where thoughts arise. Practitioners should concentrate on the hua-t’ou until they see the pure original mind which is apart from thoughts. If one does this without interruption, the mind becomes fine, quiet, tranquil, silently illuminating. At that moment the five skandas are empty, body and mind are extinguished, nothing remains. From that point, walking, standing, siting and lying down are all done motionlessly. In time the practice will deepen, and eventually practitioners will see their self-nature and become Buddhas and suffering will cease.
A past patriarch named Kao-feng (1238-1295) once said: “You must contemplate hua-t’ou like a falling roof tile sinking endlessly down into a pond ten thousand feet deep. If in seven days you are not enlightened, I will give you permission to chop off my head.” These are the words of an experienced person. He did not speak lightly. His words are true.
Although many modern day practitioners use hua-t’ou, few get enlightened. This is because compared to practitioners of the past, practitioners today have inferior karmic roots and less merit. Also, practitioners today are not clear about the purpose and path of hua-t’ou. Some practitioners search from east to west and from north to south until they die, but still do not penetrate even one hua-t’ou. They never understand or correctly approach the hua-t’ou. They only grasp the form and the words. They use their intellect and attach only to the tail of the words.
Hua-t’ou is One Mind. This mind is not inside, outside or in the middle. On the other hand, it is inside, outside and in the middle. It is like the stillness of empty space prevailing everywhere.
Hua-t’ou should not be picked up. Neither should it be pressed down. If you pick it up, your mind will waver and become unstable. If you press it down you will become drowsy. These approaches are contrary to the nature of the original mind and are not in accordance with the Middle Path.
Practitioners are distressed by wandering thoughts. They think it is difficult to tame them. Don’t be afraid of wandering thoughts. Do not waste your energy trying to repress them. All you have to do is recognize them. Do not attach to any wandering thoughts, do not follow them, and do not try to get rid of them. As long as you don’t string thoughts together, wandering thoughts will depart by themselves.
1 A classic hua-t’ou is a brief pithy sentence or question which is the main point or “punchline” of a koan story. (JHC)
PART 2

Methods of Practice in the Chan Hall

By Master Hsu Yun.
This is part two of a translation of a text by the great Chan master of the early part of the 20th century, Hsu Yun (1839-1 959). It is reprinted by permission of the Institute of Chung Hwa Buddhist Culture, New York, from Chan Newsletter 87, August 1991. The first part of this talk appeared in New Chan Forum No.4. Spring 1992.

1. Introduction:

Many people come to ask me for guidance. This makes me feel ashamed. Everyone works so hard – splitting firewood, hoeing the fields, carrying soil, moving bricks – and yet from morning to night not putting down the thought of practising the Path. Such determination for the Path is touching. I, Hsu-Yun, repent my inadequacy on the Path and my lack of virtue. I am unable to instruct you and can use only a few sayings from the ancients in response to your questions. There are four prerequisites concerning methods of practice:
  1. Deep faith in the law of cause and consequence
  2. Strict observance of precepts
  3. Immovable faith
  4. Choosing a Dharma door method of practice

2. The Essentials of Chan Practice:

Our everyday activities are executed within the Path itself Is there anywhere that is not a place for practising the Path? A Chan Hall should not even be necessary. Furthermore, Chan practice is not just sitting meditation. The Chan Hall and Chan sitting meditation are for sentient beings with deep karmic obstructions and shallow wisdom.
When one sits in meditation, one must first know how to regulate the body and mind. If they are not well regulated, then a small harm will turn into an illness and a great harm will lead to demonic entanglements. This would be most pitiable. Walking and sitting meditation in the Chan Hall are for the regulation of body and mind. There are other ways to regulate the body and mind, but I will talk about these two fundamental methods.
When you sit in the lotus position, you should sit naturally straight. Do not push the waist forward purposely. Doing so will raise your inner heat, which later on could result in having sand in the comer of your eyes, bad breath, uneasy breathing, loss of appetite, and in the worst case, vomiting blood. If dullness or sleepiness occur, open your eyes wide, straighten your back and gently move your buttocks from side to side. Dullness will naturally vanish. If you practice with an anxious attitude, you will have a sense of annoyance. At that time you should put everything down, including your efforts to practice. Rest for a few minutes. Gradually, after you recuperate, continue to practice. If you don’t do this, as time goes on you will develop a hot-tempered character, or, in the worst case, you could go insane or fall into demonic entanglements.
There are many experiences you will encounter when sitting Chan, too many to speak of. However, if you do not attach to them, they will not interfere with you. This is why the proverb says: “See the extraordinary yet do not think of it as being extraordinary, and the extraordinary will retreat.” If you encounter or perceive an unpleasant experience, take no notice of it and have no fear. If you experience something pleasant, take no notice of it and don’t give rise to fondness. The “Surangama Sutra” says: “If one does not think he has attained a supramundane experience, then this is good. On the other hand, if one thinks he has attained something supramundane, then he will attract demons.”

3. How to Start the Practice: Distinction between Host and Guest

How should one begin to practice? In the Surangama assembly, Kaundinya the Honoured One mentioned the two words “guest” and “dust”. This is where beginners should begin their practice. He said, “A traveller who stops at an inn may stay overnight or get something to eat. When he is finished or rested, he packs and continues his journey, for he does not have time to stay longer. If he were the host, he would have no place to go. Thus I reason: he who does not stay is called a guest because not staying is the essence of being a guest. He who stays is called a host. Again, on a clear day, when the sun rises and the sunlight enters a dark room through an opening, one can see dust in empty space. The dust is moving but the space is still. That which is clear and still is called space; that which is moving is called dust because moving is the essence of being dust.” Guest and dust refer to illusory thoughts, whereas host and space refer to self-nature. That the permanent host does not follow the guest in his comings and goings illustrates that permanent self-nature does not follow illusory thoughts in their fleeting rise and fall. Therefore it was said, “If one is unaffected by all things, then there will be no obstructions even when one is constantly surrounded by things.” The moving dust does not block the clear, still empty space; illusory thoughts which rise and fall by themselves do not hinder the self-nature of Suchness. Thus it was said, “If my mind does not arise, all things are blameless.” In such a state of mind, even the guest does not drift with illusory thoughts. If he understands space and dust, illusory thoughts will no longer be hindrances. It is said that when one recognizes an enemy, there will be no more enemy in your mind. if one can investigate and understand all this before starting to practice, it is unlikely that one will make serious mistakes.

4. Hua-t’ou and Doubt:

The ancient patriarchs pointed directly at Mind. When one sees self-nature, one attains Buddhahood. This was the case when Bodhidharma helped his disciple to calm his mind and when the Sixth Patriarch spoke only about seeing self-nature. All that was necessary was the direct understanding and acceptance of Mind and nothing else. There was no such thing as investigating hua-t’ou. More recent patriarchs, however, saw that practitioners could not throw themselves into practice with total dedication and could not instantaneously see their self-nature. Instead, these people played games and imitated words of wisdom, showing off other people’s treasure and patriarchs were compelled to set up schools and devise specific ways to help practitioners, hence the method of investigating hua-t’ou.
There are many hua-t’ous, such as “All dharmas return to one, where does this one return to?” “What was my original face before I was born?” and so on. The most common one, however, is “Who is reciting the Buddha’s name?”.
What is meant by hua-t’ou? Hua means the spoken word; t’ou means the head or beginning, so hua-t’ou means that which is before the spoken word. For example, reciting Amitabha Buddha is a hua, and hua-t’ou is that which precedes one’s reciting the Buddha’s name. The hua-t’ou is that moment before the thought arises. Once the thought arises, it is already the tail of the hua. The moment before that thought has arisen is called non-arising. When one’s mind is not distracted, is not dull, is not attached to quiescence, or has not fallen into a state of nothingness, it is called non-perishing. Singlemindedly and uninterruptedly, turning inward and illuminating the state of non-arising and non-perishing is called investigating the hua-t’ou or taking care of the hua-t’ou.
To investigate the hua-t’ou, one must first generate doubt. Doubt is like a walking cane for the method of investigating hua-t’ou. What is meant by doubt? For example, one may ask, “Who is reciting the Buddha’s name?” Everyone knows that it is he himself who is reciting the name, but is he using his mouth or mind? If it is his mouth, then after the person dies and the mouth still exists, how come the dead person is unable to recite Buddha’s name? If it is the mind, then what is the mind like? It cannot be known. Thus there is something one does not understand, and this gives rise to a slight doubt regarding the question of “who”.
This doubt should never be coarse. The finer it is the better one should singlemindedly watch and keep this doubt, and keep it going like a fine stream of water. Do not get distracted by any other thought. When the doubt is there, do not disturb it. When the doubt is no longer there, gently give rise to it again. Beginners will find that it is more effective to use this method when stationary rather than when moving; but you should not have a discriminating attitude. Regardless of whether your practice is effective or not or whether you are stationary or moving, just singlemindedly use the method and practice.
In the hua-t’ou, “Who is reciting the Buddha’s name?” The emphasis should be on the word “who”. The other words serve to provide a general idea, just like in asking, “Who is dressing?”, “Who is eating?”, “Who is moving their bowels?”, ”Who is urinating?”, ”Who is ignorantly fighting for an ego?”, ”Who is being aware?”. Regardless of whether one is walking, standing, sitting or reclining, the word “who” is direct and immediate. Not having to rely on repetitive thinking, conjecture, or attention, it is easy to give rise to a sense of doubt.
Hence, hua-t’ou’s involving the word “who” are wonderful methods for practising Chan. But the idea is not to repeat, “Who is reciting Buddha’s name?” like one might repeat the Buddha’s name itself; nor is it right to use reasoning to come up with an answer to the question, thinking that this is what is meant by having doubt. There are people who uninterruptedly repeat the phrase, “Who is reciting the Buddha’s name?” They would accumulate more merit and virtue if they repeatedly recited Amitabha Buddha’s name instead. There are others who let their minds wander, thinking that is the meaning of having doubt, and they end up more involved in illusory thoughts. This is like trying to ascend but descending instead. Be aware of this.
The doubt that is generated by a beginning practitioner tends to be coarse, intermittent and irregular. This does not truly qualify as a state of doubt. It can only be called thoughts. Gradually, after the wild thoughts settle and one has more control, the process can be called “ts’an” (ts’an means to investigate or look into). As one’s cultivation gets smoother, the doubt naturally arises without one’s actively inducing it to. At this point one is not aware of where one is sitting. One is not aware of the existence of a body or mind or environment. Only the doubt is there. This is a true state of doubt.
Realistically speaking, the initial stage cannot be considered cultivation. One is merely engaging in illusory thoughts. Only when true doubt arises by itself can it be called true cultivation. This moment is a crucial juncture, and it is easy for the practitioner to deviate from the right path:
  1. At this moment it is clear and pure and there is an unlimited sense of lightness and peace. However, if one fails to fully maintain one’s awareness and illumination (awareness is wisdom, not delusion; illumination is samadhi, not disorder), one will fall into a light state of mental dullness. If there is an open-eyed person around, he will be able to tell right away that the practitioner is in this mental state and hit him with the incense stick, dispersing all clouds and fog. Many people become enlightened this way.
  2. At this moment it is clear and pure, empty and vacuous. If it isn’t, then the doubt is lost. Then it is “no content”, meaning one is not making an effort to practice any more. This is what is meant by “the cliff with dry wood” or “the rock soaking in cold water”. In this situation the practitioner has to “bring up”. “Bring up” means to develop awareness and illumination. It is different from earlier times when the doubt was coarse. Now it has to be fine – one thought, uninterrupted and extremely subtle. With utter clarity, it is illuminating and quiescent, unmoving yet fully aware. Like the smoke from a fire that is about to go out, it is a narrow stream without interruption. When one’s practice reaches this point, it is necessary to have a diamond eye in the sense that one should not try to “bring up” any more. To “bring up” at this point would be like putting a head on top of one’s head.
Once a monk, asked Chan master Chao-chou, “What should one do when not one thing comes?” Chao-chou replied, “Put it down”. The monk, asked, “If not one thing comes, what does one put down?” Chao-chou replied, “If it cannot be put down, take it up”. This dialogue refers precisely to this kind of situation. The true flavour of this state cannot be described. Like someone drinking water, only he knows how cool or warm it is. If a person reaches this state, he will naturally understand. If he is not at this state, no explanation will be adequate. To a sword master you should offer a sword; do not bother showing your poetry to someone who is not a poet.

5. Taking Care of Hua-t’ou and Turning Inward to Hear One’s Self-Nature:

Someone might ask, “How is Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara’s method of turning inward to hear self-nature considered investigating Chan?”. I have previously explained that taking care of hua-t’ou is being, moment after moment, with only one thought, singlemindedly shining the light inward on “that which is not born and not destroyed”. Inward illumination is reflection. Self-nature is that which is not born and not destroyed. When “hearing” and “illuminating” follow sound and form in the worldly stream, hearing does not go beyond sound and seeing does not go beyond form. However, when one turns inward and contemplates self-nature against the worldly steam, and does not pursue sound and form, then he becomes pure and transparent. At that time, “hearing” and “illuminating” are not two different things.
Thus we should know that taking care of the hua-t’ou and turning inward to hear self-nature does not mean using our eyes to see and our ears to hear. If we use our ears to hear or our eyes to see, then we are chasing sound and form. As a result we will be affected by them. This is called submission to the worldly stream. If one practices with one thought only, singlemindedly abiding in that which is not born and not destroyed, not chasing after sound and form, with no wandering thoughts, then one is going against the stream. This is also called taking care of the hua-t’ou or turning inward to hear one’s self-nature. This is not to say you should close your eyes tightly or cover your ears. Just do not generate a mind of seeking after sound and form.

6. Determined to Leave Samsara and Generating a Persevering Mind:

In Chan training the most important thing is to have an earnestness to leave birth and death and to generate a persevering mind. If there is no earnestness to leave birth and death, then one cannot generate the “great doubt” and practice will not be effective. if there is no perseverance in one’s mind, the result will be laziness, like a man who practices for one day and rests for ten. The practice will be incomplete and fragmented. Just develop a persevering mind and when great doubt arises, vexations will come to an end by themselves. When the time comes, the melon will naturally depart from the vine.
I will tell you a story. During the Ch’ing dynasty in the year of K’eng Tse (1900) when the eight world powers sent their armies to Peking, the Emperor Kuang-hsu fled westward from Peking to Shen Hsi province. Everyday he walked tens of miles. For several days he had no food to eat. On the road, a peasant offered him sweet potato stems. After he had eaten them, he asked the peasant what they were because they tasted so good. Think about the Emperor’s usual awe-inspiring demeanour and his arrogance! How long do you think he could continue to maintain his imperial attitude after so long a journey on foot? Do you think he had ever gone hungry? Do you think he ever had to eat sweet potato stems? At that time he gave up all of his airs. After all, he had walked quite a distance and had eaten stems to keep from starving. Why was he able to put down everything at that time? Because the allied armies wanted his life and his only thought was to save himself But when peace prevailed and he returned to Peking, once again he became proud and arrogant. He didn’t have to run any more. He no longer had to eat any food that might displease him. Why was he unable to put down everything at that time? Because the allied armies no longer wanted his life. If the Emperor always had an attitude of running for his life and if he could turn such an attitude toward the path of practice, there would be nothing he could not accomplish. It’s a pity he did not have a persevering mind. When favourable circumstances returned, so did his former habits.
Fellow practitioners! Time is passing, never to return. It is constantly looking for our lives. It is more frightening than the allied armies. Time will never compromise or make peace with us. Let us generate a mind of perseverance immediately in order to escape from birth and death! Master Kao-fung (1238-1295) once said, “Concerning the practice, one should act like a stone dropping into the deepest part of the pool – ten thousand feet deep – continuously and persistently dropping without interruption toward the bottom. If one can practice like this without stopping, continuously for seven days, and still be unable to cut off one’s wandering, illusory thoughts and vexations, I, Kao-fung, will have my tongue pulled out for cows to plough on forever”. He continued by saying, “When one practices Chan, one should set out a certain time for success, like a man who has fallen into a pit a thousand feet deep. All his tens of thousands of thoughts are reduced to one – escape from the pit. If one can really practice from morning to dusk and from night to day without a second thought, and if he does not attain complete enlightenment within three, five or seven days, I shall be committing a great lie for which I shall have my tongue pulled out for cows to plough on forever”. This old master had great compassion.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.godrinktea.com/2009/03/how-can-i-speak.html

T'aego was one of the great masters of the Korean Zen tradition. His wisdom was such that he was able to unify the Nine Mountains schools of Korean Zen into a single order (the Chogye Order, still the largest order of Korean Zen).


He was a prolific writer of essays, talks, and poetry. Here's a poem for your consideration:
How Can I Speak
All phenomena are beyond names and forms
The sounds of the streams and the colors of the mountains are closest
What is closest?
You can only please yourself: how can I speak?

Commentary
T'aego's poem has a teaching direction, with each line functioning as a koan (Korean: kong-an). Here are questions that might arise from this poem:
1. What does "all phenomena are beyond names and forms" mean?
2. What does "the sounds of the streams and the colors of the mountains are closest" mean?
3. What is closest?
4. How can you speak?

In the Korean Zen tradition, students are often asked to respond to specific questions about a case or story. Some of the questions have a "wide gate," through which several types of answers might pass. Others have a "narrow gate," which would permit only a very precise answer. You might consider each line of T'aego's poem from this perspective.

You can learn more about T'aego in A Buddha from Korea: The Zen Teachings of T'aego, by J.C. Cleary
Also see: Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives


Session Start: Wednesday, February 11, 2009

(6:35 PM) AEN:    http://dharmaoverground.wetpaint.com/thread/2385161/Sharing+like+back+in+the+day...
looking foward to hearing the discussion :P
(6:49 PM) AEN:   
When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!
this became apparent to me just now
(6:49 PM) AEN:    the more the self disappears the more everything manifest its clearness
(6:50 PM) AEN:    and naturalness
(6:51 PM) AEN:    and spaciousness... but spaciousness is not like void.. but the more spacious the more clear everything is..
(6:56 PM) AEN:    today im surprisingly awake even though i only slept 2 hours
(6:57 PM) AEN:    btw posted something on buddhism and taoism here: http://www.sgclub.com/singapore/difference_between_127679.html
its after i wrote this then i search the internet for something then found the zisirum blog
(6:58 PM) AEN:    but i tink my post is too chim for the person :P
(12:56 AM) Thusness:    don't deviate from the path
i wrote in the forum
(12:57 AM) AEN:    oic..
(12:58 AM) Thusness:    whatever u experienced is already this way, when u continue u r only enhancing the imprints and ignorance
(12:59 AM) Thusness:    if u r unable to get out now, do u think u r able to get out after continuously re-enforcing ur imprints?
all actions leaves imprints
(12:59 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:00 AM) Thusness:    observe ur thoughts, see is there any agent
truly experience it
(1:01 AM) Thusness:    if u see, u r naturally non-dual
(1:01 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:01 AM) Thusness:    so why is there a need to go a big round and ended up with all wrong views?
(1:02 AM) Thusness:    if there is no self, u r already most direct...where is there a need to be non-dual
if u don
(1:02 AM) Thusness:    if u don't understand propensities, u will never know how it blinds u
(1:02 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:04 AM) Thusness:    yet even anatta, u will still not understand DO.  If u r lucky, it takes u 3-5 years to have ur divided consciousness view being replaced.
if u r unlucky, it can take u lives.
(1:04 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    it is very difficult to have permanent lucidity and u should start from now.
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    i m not belittling ur teacher, but she is not there yet even at this age
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    do u think u have that dedication and sincerity like her in practice?
(1:06 AM) AEN:    no
(1:06 AM) Thusness:    so don't continue to enhance urself with wrong understanding
(1:06 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness:    rather after having the views, practice to have these views be authenticated in actual experience.
(1:07 AM) Thusness:    when realise anatta, there will be a period to get accustomed to sync ur views with experience
(1:08 AM) Thusness:    it is not easy to do that
(1:08 AM) Thusness:    yet it is very important because we don't know consciousness
(1:09 AM) Thusness:    in additions to non dual and emptiness, u must experience imprints
(1:09 AM) Thusness:    and to have the right understanding, it can take u entire life
(1:09 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:10 AM) Thusness:    if u practice like that of the advaita, u will not even talk about imprints and dispositions
(1:10 AM) Thusness:    u do not know what is spontaneous arising in terms of dependent origination
u cannot know what is intention
(1:12 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:15 AM) AEN:    btw u saw my msgs earlier?
(1:16 AM) Thusness:    nope
(1:16 AM) AEN:    i cant remember what i sent u liao :P cos i sent u in sch
one of the things i ask u is what bks to recommend thevoice
(1:16 AM) Thusness:    regarding?
(1:17 AM) AEN:    he sent me a link to jill bolte taylor's video
then he asked me if i know of any talks
(1:18 AM) AEN:    then i sent him toni packer articles and the tejananda articles... cos i tink its more practical. i tink he looking for something more practical. i also told him he can look for the 'clarifying the natural state'
(1:18 AM) AEN:    but he also mentioned mahamudra is too complex for him he got a bit of experiences with that b4 or something last time
(1:19 AM) AEN:    btw i also ask u u mentioned last time thevoice knows the luminosity aspect... but he told me something like he dont know what pure awareness means and he has never experienced that before. but enhanced or expanded awareness maybe
(1:19 AM) AEN:    books also i mean. toni packer books i told him he can get them
(1:19 AM) Thusness:    yeah
(1:20 AM) AEN:    ?
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    i said his is he treat it like individuality
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    he knows the 'I'
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    but as individuality
(1:21 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    not as pure awareness
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    i told u "I AM" has various phase
(1:21 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    means he knows he is not the body
(1:22 AM) Thusness:    not the eternal witness sort of experience
(1:22 AM) AEN:    different from witness?
(1:22 AM) Thusness:    not so much of witness but that he is more than a body
(1:22 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:23 AM) Thusness:    like spirit
but not a direct experience of "I"
(1:23 AM) AEN:    not a direct experience of 'I'?
wat u mean
(1:24 AM) Thusness:    it is like what that is being described in what u posted in the forum
it is not a direct experience of eternal witness
it is infering
(1:24 AM) Thusness:    relating
testing
but the person knows he is not the body
(1:25 AM) Thusness:    knows vaguely about awareness
(1:25 AM) AEN:    which part.. i posted a few things
(1:25 AM) Thusness:    but have not directly touch awareness
(1:25 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:26 AM) Thusness:    do u know that touching awareness directly even at the "I AM" is totally different from what that is being described
it is like what ken wilber said
(1:26 AM) AEN:    what is being described where
(1:26 AM) Thusness:    beyond the shadow of doubt
(1:26 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    like what ramakhrisna described
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    it is not the part where he said he is being carried as if he is dead
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    that is like what thevoice is experiencing
it is the direct experience of the I AM
(1:28 AM) Thusness:    complete stillness, ultimate, without thoughts
complete certainty
(1:28 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness:    ramakrishna at later phase is talking about that
resting completely as Self
(1:29 AM) Thusness:    i mean ramana maharishi...:P
(1:30 AM) AEN:    orh haha.. no wonder, never read much on rama krishna before
(1:30 AM) Thusness:    when he visualized that he is being dead and carried to be burnt
he realises he is not the body
(1:31 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    it is not the direct experience of "I AM"
(1:31 AM) AEN:    not?
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    yes
not
(1:31 AM) AEN:    oic
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    it is just a glimpse
(1:31 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    not that direct experience
(1:32 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:32 AM) Thusness:    that experience is like what a Zen master asking a koan
it is that sort of experience
(1:32 AM) Thusness:    direct realisation of the 'I'
found it
without thoughts, no inference, entire and complete
(1:33 AM) Thusness:    just that experience rest in the I
not as everything
and the empty nature is not seen
that experience is correct
(1:34 AM) AEN:    icic..
correct?
(1:34 AM) Thusness:    yeah
have u read my stage 4
(1:34 AM) AEN:    yea
what about it
(1:34 AM) Thusness:    i said the sound is exactly like i am
(1:34 AM) AEN:    its same as "I AM" but in sound, etc rite
oh ya
(1:35 AM) Thusness:    it is not like ur experience of sound leh
(1:35 AM) AEN:    wat u mean
(1:35 AM) AEN:    its totally nondual u mean?
(1:35 AM) Thusness:    non dual is no separation
(1:35 AM) AEN:    ya
(1:36 AM) Thusness:    there are differing degree
(1:36 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness:    do u feel like u r God?
when one experiences "I AM", he feels like he is God
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    that sort of experience leh
(1:37 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    can that experience be ordinary?
(1:37 AM) AEN:    nope
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    it is transcendental
(1:37 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:38 AM) AEN:    just now u said the forum theres this article that was inferring and not direct experience
(1:38 AM) Thusness:    that is why one is led to the journey into perfecting that state
(1:38 AM) AEN:    which one u referring to
oic..
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    like u do this, shake a bit then u realise that
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    like it is like a screen...
nothing like that
(1:39 AM) AEN:    orh that one..
icic
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    u cannot understand awareness that way
either by self enquiry u directly experience it
or koan
(1:40 AM) Thusness:    there is no such thing as unsure
The Voice Clip could not be recorded.
(1:41 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:41 AM) AEN:    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6865032740128202927 -- first time i hear the voice of ramana. din know he can speak english
(1:41 AM) Thusness:    there are few ramana
(1:41 AM) AEN:    its ramana maharshi
(1:42 AM) AEN:    but maybe its not him
(1:47 AM) Thusness:    if a practitioner can experience like what maharshi experience as SELF in anatta, then he is near full enlightenment liao. :P
(1:47 AM) AEN:    oic..
u mean someone who experience anatta may not experience what ramana experience?
both are required?
(1:48 AM) Thusness:    it is the thoroughness
(1:48 AM) Thusness:    and the depth and degree of luminosity
(1:49 AM) Thusness:    for non-dual anatta to have that sort of presence, there must be complete effortlessness
(1:49 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:50 AM) Thusness:    because unlike concentrative mode of practice, non-dual or the formless and pathless path requires one to be completely effortless and spontaneous to have total non-dual luminosity
(1:51 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:51 AM) AEN:    btw for ramana its still a concentrative mode of practice rite
like abiding on self
(1:52 AM) Thusness:    to me yes
(1:52 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:53 AM) Thusness:    the video is good
but don
(1:54 AM) AEN:    don?
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    it is a very good video
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    but don't post it in the forum
(1:55 AM) AEN:    orh haha icic.. ya i wont la :P
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    if a person can have that experience then go into nondual, it is different
if anatta can be experienced, it will be better
(1:56 AM) AEN:    oic..
wat u mean 'it is different'
(1:57 AM) Thusness:    a person can experience non-dual, there is no separation
but there is no such experience like "I AM"
(1:58 AM) Thusness:    so he does not have that 'quality' of experience
(1:58 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:59 AM) Thusness:    however he a practitioner experience that "I AM" then when non-dual, he knows that there is such an experience
and all experiences are really like that
(1:59 AM) AEN:    oic..
the nondual experience will be more indepth?
(1:59 AM) Thusness:    no
it is all the same
(2:00 AM) Thusness:    but found in all manifestation
not as a stage
(2:00 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:00 AM) Thusness:    i wrote in luminousemptiness
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    that if luminosity and emptiness is taught but there is no realisation that it is the great bliss
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    then one has not realised anything
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    but chodpa said, not that it is pointless but just a step along the path
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    so what is it the geat bliss?
(2:03 AM) AEN:    absorption in luminosity?
clarity?
i dunno
(2:03 AM) AEN:    i have experience of bliss but dunnu if its wat u mean
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    it is actually a sort of absorption
(2:04 AM) AEN:    ya i notice theres bliss when theres absorption
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    will talk about that next time
i think i will write about anatta
(2:04 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    so that u don't
get confused
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    with non-dual
(2:05 AM) AEN:    oic..
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    anatta is about no agent
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    clarity that there is no agent
(2:05 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    and because there is no agent, it has to be direct
(2:06 AM) AEN:    oic
means in the sound just the sound
(2:06 AM) Thusness:    it is naturally non dual
(2:06 AM) AEN:    icic
i wrote something to u just now
but dunnu if u received
(2:06 AM) Thusness:    nope
(2:06 AM) AEN:   
(6:35 PM) AEN: http://dharmaoverground.wetpaint.com/thread/2385161/Sharing+like+back+in+the+day...
looking foward to hearing the discussion 
(6:49 PM) AEN:
When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!
this became apparent to me just now

(6:49 PM) AEN: the more the self disappears the more everything manifest its clearness
(6:50 PM) AEN: and naturalness
(6:51 PM) AEN: and spaciousness... but spaciousness is not like void.. but the more spacious the more clear everything is..
(6:56 PM) AEN: today im surprisingly awake even though i only slept 2 hours
(2:07 AM) AEN:   
(6:57 PM) AEN: btw posted something on buddhism and taoism here: http://www.sgclub.com/singapore/difference_between_127679.html
its after i wrote this then i search the internet for something then found the zisirum blog
(6:58 PM) AEN: but i tink my post is too chim for the person 
(2:07 AM) Thusness:    yes
i want to experience this clarity
(2:07 AM) Thusness:    u must sleep
later into anatta
(2:08 AM) AEN:    i slept i tink 2 hours in the evening i tink :P
(2:08 AM) Thusness:    what u experienced is non-dual
(2:08 AM) AEN:    oic
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    now u must practice anatta and letting go
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    u will naturally experience that clarity
(2:09 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    u must understand anatta and DO also implies imprints
u r always dealing with imprints
(2:10 AM) Thusness:    then wait for the right conditions for ripening of ur experience
(2:11 AM) AEN:    oic..
(2:14 AM) AEN:    http://buddhabra.blogspot.com/
journal of a journey.
This post by a redditor corresponds to Phase 1 of the Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

It teaches the Self-Inquiry method (just as my free e-book does) as a direct means to attain Self-Realization.

Also check out related articles:

Some Writings on Self-Enquiry and Non-duality by Ken Wilber
Ramana Maharshi's instructions on Self-Enquiry

----------
https://www.reddit.com/r/spirituality/comments/5sgy4l/the_direct_path_to_your_real_self/

The Direct Path to Your Real Self 🎯


Did I tell you The Cosmic Joke, and how you were in on it all this while ?
What if I tell you that the Kingdom of God is within your reach. And it is reachable right here and right now. What will it take for you to believe me for a few mere minutes of your life ? You were probably going to spend these few minutes by marinating in the current gossip at your office, or worrying about the latest problem to hit your life, or reminiscing in a new love interest that is showing a lot of promise to last the long mile ? I'm not asking you to believe in anything. All I ask is for you to look and find something yourself. I'm only pointing to it. And I will try my best to point to it, with my complete capacity to currently do so.
On the night of 7th Dec '16, I realized that I did not exist as a seperate identity. It was the most subtle, yet profound realization of my life. I cannot compare it to anything at all. Since then, I've been going deeper and deeper into it. I found that I was the Ocean of Love myself, and it was so for as long as I could recall, and will be so for all eternity. I've been trying hard to make sense of it, but herein lies the problem - it cannot be made sense of. It is what allows the sense to exist. Anyway, starting in such an abstract manner was actually intended so that I have your undivided attention for the foreseeable future now. There is no magic here, and nothing is to be conjured. On the 4th Feb '17, I was able to guide my wife to also realize the Self. It also was the most profound realization for her, and she wept and laughed when she saw that it was so easy. She could not believe that for realizing something so simple, is what a lot of religious texts are written. I hope to be able to repeat this with everyone here, as I believe that every human being is 100% capable of realizing this.
The most important thing to remember here is that you should not have any expectations whatsoever. Even the slightest of expectations will thwart your union with your true Self. So just do what I say and stay in the moment.
RULES -
  • Read this text only when you are not pre-occupied with a chore, and are in an environment conducive for inner reflection.
  • Read completely until the end.
  • Have no expectations.
  • Read the instructions and reflect upon them.
  • DO NOT TRY TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES.
  • The instructions are very simple. Do not assume or create your own version of the instructions.
  • Keep aside all that you have read or know about spirituality.
  • Finally, be truthful to yourself. There is no one judging you because everyone else is reading this and seeing this for themselves :D
Let us start with the gross world - the things that you own in your home. You own the chair/bed/etc you are sitting on. But are you that chair/bed ? You own the phone/computer screen you are reading this on. But are you this phone ? Are you, your possessions ? Reflect upon this, and read further only when you realize that you are not your possessions.
Obviously you are not the chair, or the phone, just because you own them. Then take this body of yours. You say, this is your body. The entire body belongs to you, but you are not your possessions. Reflect upon this, and read further only when you realize that you are not your body as well.
Obviously, you are not even your body for the simple fact that you cannot be something that you yourself owns. Along with your body, you also removed all your senses of tasting, smelling, hearing, seeing and touching, from the equation. You are not even your 5 senses. The 5 senses serve you, but they are not you. Things are starting to get a little heated now. Something wonky is going on here, isn't it ? What about thoughts ? Do you think that the thought came to you, because you thought of it ? Or did the thought come to you of its' own accord ? If I say, do not think of the white dog barking outside, why did an image of the white dog flash in your mind right now ? It is not because you were unable in controlling your mind. It is because that is how the mind functions. It functions of its' own accord. It can be said that it has a life of its' own. You do not say that I will now think of an orange sun setting in the mountains, and then you think of the orange sun setting in the mountains. The thought of the orange sun setting in the mountains comes directly to you, without your decision to think so. Do you know that your kidney is fulfilling its' functions without you interfering into it ? Is it because it has a life of its' own too ? Oh no. Do all of your body organs fulfill their functions without you intervening in them ? Something seriously twisted is going on here and should be investigated into ! Reflect upon this paragraph and read further only when you realize that thoughts come to you by themselves.
Obviously, you are not even your thoughts. What about emotions ? Guess what, emotions too are thoughts. Your emotions. Your thoughts. Your senses. Your body. Your possessions. But they aren't you. Then what are you ? What about breath ? What is a breath after all ? The air that your lungs are filling up with AT THE MOMENT. The next moment, your lungs are empty of all this air as well. The breath has gone out now. But you are still here. Reflect upon this paragraph and read further only when you realize that you are not even the breath you take.
Are you still here or not ? I'm sure you are. But who are you here as ? Are you here as your identity or name ? You have a certain set of beliefs that you carry along with yourself as what you think makes you 'you'. What if I tell you that your parents are not your biological parents and that they had adopted you from your real parents, and that your name is not what you call yourself currently. What if your parents provide you proof of this as well. A minute ago, you were someone you always thought you were, but now suddenly, with the introduction of some new facts, your idea of who you are seems to have changed. What do you know about yourself that is for certain and doesn't change, regardless of changes in your so called identity ? Reflect upon this paragraph and read further only when you realize that you are not the identity you take yourself to be.
You hold your identity the closest to yourself, because you protect it with your life. Read this below scenario completely and then try to imagine the same with your eyes closed to get a deeper feel for it. You are in a pitch black room without a single ray of light. It makes no difference if your eyes are open or closed in this room. Your hands and legs are bound in chains and stretched away from your torso. Next, you realize that you have absolutely no recollection of anything from the past. You don't even know any language that you can speak. You don't know your name. You don't know your caste and creed. You don't even know the color of your skin. Heck, there is no way for you to even know your own gender. You can't move your hands over your body to verify your gender because your hands are bound in chains. Oh, what a predicament to be in ! Despite having literally no information about yourself, you know that you are here in this pitch black room. How do you acknowledge your presence in this black room ? Can you deny your presence in this room ? Is it possible for you to say that you are not here in this room ? Look carefully, and see what is it about you, which allows you to make the statement,"I am here". You don't even know any languages you can speak. And yet, you can ascertain your presence in this black room. You have been stripped off of everything you owned, but there is something that you do not own. You do not own your own presence. You ARE the presence. Your presence cannot be taken from you. You can never say that, "I am not here", because even to say this, something has to perceive your own absence. Before you say "I am Daniel (hypothetical name)", you have to be here. Before you add 'Daniel', you say "I AM..." To be Daniel, you have to be Here and Now. Do you see how simple and subtle this realization is ? It is something that you have taken for granted for all your life. But, today is the day you meet your real Self. Your presence, is the most important factor of all, because it is on the screen of your presence, that the entire world and the cosmos is reflected upon. You are the cinema screen, devoid of any flavor, onto which movies of unlimited genres are played upon. Tragic situations, comedic situations, romantic and action and sci-fi alike. It all happens because of your presence. The world is in you. You are not in the world. This is why Nisargadutta Maharaj says, "I am that, by which I know, I am." Read that again slowly and you will get it. The 'amness', is the most critical factor of all. Think about it - is your presence any different from mine ? Does your presence have a gender ? Or any age ? Or any emotion or feeling ? Does it even have a morality scale ? Do you see how you judge your self more than others judge you ? This is what is called, being aware of awareness. It is even called liberation, or moksha, or nirvana, or enlightenment, or cosmic consciousness.
Yes, it is as simple as that. Your name and your personality, is just a bundle of thoughts, ideas, opinions, judgements and feelings at best, and they are not you. This is why it is said that everything is Maya, an illusion. Because everything is passing and changing, but it is doing so on the screen of your presence, which is ever unchanging. You never stop being you. And by you, I don't mean your identity. I simply mean your beingness, or your presence. Someone might say that the presence too belongs to someone, but it is not so. Your 'am-ness' doesn't belong to you. It isn't yours ! You ARE it !!!
I'm sure that this text, that I so joyfully wrote, will help someone to see through the prisons that they themselves created. There was no person inside you, and that we inherently are all hollow, or filled with nothingness. Our presence is the vacant nothingness onto which the everythingness of the world is projected upon. To anyone who has followed me here so far and can see this most simple truth reflected in their own being - when the thoughts come to you, do you see who it comes to ? It comes to no one. There is no solitary being sitting inside you, who you serve. There is no ego, because there never was one. All your psychological suffering was imagined. There is no ego. There only is egoic behaviour. It is a funny thing to see this.
You might have doubts about something now. Do you doubt your own presence ? Is there anything else that you are sure of, apart from your own presence ?
This is the first version of my little guide to realizing your true nature, and might undergo further future revisions, as and how I find a better way to state examples or scenarios to guide you to your Self. I sincerely hope that this helps everyone here.
The one who is laughing uncontrollably by now knows that he got the joke !!! 😉🙏



...

From the same author:

https://www.reddit.com/r/awakened/comments/7i53gb/today_marks_1_year_of_unending_and_everdeepening/?st=JQN9HZKH&sh=cb3860a0


Today marks 1 year of unending and ever-deepening bliss since I woke up. Sharing some of the text I wrote on my blog. Hope it helps to ignite the flame in at least one person here.


Dear seekers,
Today marks 1 year since I woke up to the realization of my true Self. And undoubtedly, this has been the most revolutionary year of my life, yet. Each passing moment since then has been filled with increasing wonder. There have been moments of joy and sorrow, but staying detached from both of them led to unending and ever-deepening bliss. I have been blessed to be able to guide a few others to this same realization as well. It is my only desire that as many awaken to this as possible, regardless of how they awaken, or which path they take, for every path leads to this. For the awakening, the biggest desire one needs to have, is to awaken. It has to be bigger than any dreams or ambitions one has. When the desire for self realization is the strongest, it burns all other desires that one has, along with itself. An awakened life truly is the best way to live.
I started a blog earlier this year, and though I haven't updated it in a while, the 3 articles I wrote have helped countless seekers so far. I don't claim to be the best writer on self-realization, nor do I have any hopes to end up as one. Each has their own path and if my articles help you even a tiny bit, I would consider my writings a decent success.
Feel free to share them with anyone you feel would benefit from it.

Related: Four Aspects of I AM

Good for the different phases/aspects of I AMness as I wrote in my e-book. The last part is 'impersonality', being lived by cosmic intelligence.

http://www.innerfrontier.org/Practices/JacobsLadder.htm?fbclid=IwAR2ZX3UR1KtQaUnFTQiQ86b_zWKHcasdv81hL7-3XFZzsFAxgfTLwDmPH4k

A Meditation: Climbing Jacob's Ladder
Left-click for MP3 audio stream, right-click to download
In this meditation, as far as we are able, we climb up Jacob’s Ladder, the ladder to the higher spiritual worlds. We might work at this meditation when in a particularly good state. Or when in difficulty. Or when we feel an especially strong need to delve into the depths of being. We do not expect to climb all the way up. Indeed, this meditation can be a measure of our progress, of the quality of our being and the purity of our will, of how thoroughly we can release the grip of self-centeredness and all the rest that keeps us mired in unfulfilling modes of living. The attempt itself to climb this ladder, to operate in progressively higher energies, gradually strengthens our being and purifies our will.
To fully enter this practice may require an extended block of time: an hour or more. Give each of the stages its due. They cannot be rushed or pushed. Let each phase take as much time as it needs to ripen into fullness. You will know when that happens.
We begin with a thorough relaxation, letting go the tensions, large and small, in every corner of our body, in our thoughts, and in our emotions.
Next, we open to the energy of sensation in the whole body. Energy breathing can help build the sensation. We sit in the midst of this remarkable body of ours, in full awareness of the whole of it through sensation. We continuously direct our intention, our will to support, strengthen, and inhabit our full-body sensation, which grows more and more and more substantial. Our will-to-be manifests through this whole body of sensation.
We become aware of ourselves, of who we are. We become ourselves. We experience ourselves as wholly and firmly present, as I Am. "Here I am, sitting in this body of sensation, in robust presence. I am here. Unique. Wholly myself. I fill the whole field of awareness with my intention to be. I am making an act of being, of being here, of being whole in the fullness of my current experience. I sit. I am. I am complete. I continuously renew this act of being." These sayings are not intended as affirmations to repeat to yourself; rather they describe what you do, what you create and experience in this stage.
After some time, we notice the growing spaciousness around and in our awareness. We naturally shift into that fundamental, spacious awareness, that cognizant stillness behind and beneath all sensation, thought, and emotion. While maintaining the full-body sensation and the experience of I Am, we rest in consciousness. No longer entangled with random sensations and sensory perceptions, we let them be. We let all the sensory input be embraced in the context of our consciousness, our pure awareness, the field and background within which sensory perceptions flare up and fade out. This transparent awareness forms an empty vessel, through which all the sensory perceptions, thoughts, and emotions pass freely, unhindered, appearing and disappearing. Behind it all, we rest in conscious awareness, as I Am. We may notice a new relationship with time: we are partially released from its dominion. Our perception of space also changes at this level, where the categories of inner and outer no longer apply.
Gradually, consciousness itself grows porous. Then, with the whole of our being, we simultaneously reach out toward and open to a greater world beyond ourselves, beyond consciousness, and begin to perceive the world of sacred light, trickling into our darkness. Inwardly calling out to the Divine, we repeatedly open toward that ultimate, creative light until only it remains. On the outskirts of that world, we feel its warmth, we sense its glow, we soak in its energy. In its fullness, all separateness, all the ten thousand things merge into that Primordial Sacred Sun. That light is part of our nature, the source of wisdom. We become the light, basking in unimaginable joy.
Next — and remarkably there is a next — we become aware of the other side of I Am, of the source from which it arises, within a stillness of surpassing quality. We see our I as a knot that blocks off the depths, a knot that makes itself the source of our will, intentions, choices, and decisions, including the intention to meditate in this moment. Gradually we loosen the knot until it gives way, until I let go entirely of being myself, of being my own source.
Until this point, our ascent has been into the depths within us. But always we have remained at the core of the experience, with the experience outside of us, of our core. Now we must empty that very core and open to what is deeper than our innermost center. We ourselves become the outside to the Sacred Will of the World, Who is our Source, and let that Will come through us, as us.
We inwardly prostrate ourselves, begging for reconnection, begging to become a part of that Greatness. Silently and wholeheartedly calling out to the Ultimate, completely and utterly opening the very kernel of who we are, we reach beyond the world of sacred light, into the unbounded emptiness, which is also an overflowing fullness, an intimacy with all, with the All.
    This is the Sacred Will of the World,
    Of Whom I am now a particle,
    Who lends me the will to be myself,
    Who lends me my I,
    Who is my very Self,
    Whom I hope to become able to serve by emptying myself unconditionally,
    In Whom we are all united,
    And Who continuously creates and sustains this universe in love.
This ultimate stage of the meditation comes only as an act of grace from Above. It lies well beyond our ability to make happen, although our emptiness, our surrender, and our love are necessary. Attempting to enter here, prayer may help. If you are so inclined, silently repeat one of God’s names, one close to your heart, one that both expresses your yearning and brings you peace.
In closing the meditation, we climb back down Jacob’s Ladder to return to our daily life, though somewhat changed inwardly. We come, in turn, back to the sacred light, back to the cognizant stillness of consciousness and the presence of I Am, back to sensation and relaxation, and thus back to the base of the ladder. We rest in awareness as the meditation settles in us.