Also see: What is Total Exertion?

 Shinshu Roberts


Shinshu Roberts is a Dharma Heir of Sojun Mel Weitsman, abbot of Berkeley Zen Center and in the lineage of Shunryu Suzuki Roshi. She received her priest training at San Francisco Zen Center and from the North American branch of the Japanese Soto School. She has been appointed Kokusaifukyoshi (International Dharma Teacher) by the Shumucho (Japanese Soto Administration). She co-founded Ocean Gate Zen Center in Capitola, CA with her spouse Jaku Kinst.


Excerpts from Being-Time: A Practitioner's Guide to Dogen's Shobogenzo Uji by Shinshu Roberts:


"...Moving Endlessly Up and Down

Dynamic movement can also be understood as a moment abiding as impermanence. Tanahashi translates this section as "actualized by ascending and descending of the time-being at each moment," suggesting a quality of staying put yet dynamically moving.

If you are a dancer, you respond to sound and rhythm with your body. Yet each dance has its own demands or particularity. If you are a ballerina, you have a certain set of forms defining the style of how you will dance, yet within these parameters, your options of expression are innumerable. As you dance, that moment also holds the moment of the music's composer, the moment of composition, the history and culture of the music, the creativity of the choreographer, endlessly naming and including everything in the universe. There is also the nondual, total inclusivity of each moment, as the dance dances the dance - no subject and no object. At the same time, there is just the unique, independent, exclusive moment of the individual dancer dancing. Both are happening together, both depend upon the other for being-time's expression. This is the moment's constancy in the midst of dynamic expression.

Abiding in the moment is the right-here-and-now of our experience: it is enduring suchness. This suchness is the dynamic interpenetrating connection with all of reality. You may have a feeling that this moment is tranquil and quiescent, separate and complete. Yet, this moment is still interacting with all of reality. We're not usually aware of the universality of the moment, but that does not negate its expression.

This moving up and down can be understood as a kind of deep penetration of a particular occurrence of our being-time. At the same time, it is all being-time. The universal quality is the connective glue of all dharma positions as they simultaneously actualize being-time. Because each moment is interpenetrating being-time and also independent in and of itself, we get a sense of impermanence expressed.

A Glimpse of the Entire World

Continuing the paragraph, Dogen writes, "This time realizes the entire world by being a creature with three heads and eight arms, and realizes the entire world by being a sixteen-foot golden body." Dogen is reiterating that a particular dharma position's independent nature might be perceived as a creature with three heads and eight arms or a sixteen-foot golden body..."

"Deep Investigation
In the United States, we often hear about mindfulness associated with Buddhism. A popular definition of mindfulness is a kind of complete attention on an activity and its object. For instance as we are washing dishes, we might be saying to ourselves, "I am washing a plate," and focusing our thoughts on the feeling of the activity itself. We might slow down, follow our breath, and put all our focus on the sensation of the task as an object of our attention.

This would not be how Dogen would approach the practice of deep investigation or exhaustive penetration. He might be describe the activity of washing dishes as washing washes washing, thereby removing the subject-object relationship. Mindfulness may be a dharma gate to intimacy, but it is not the Zen practice of exhaustively penetrating the totality of one's experience. In the true intimacy of complete engagement there is no labeling of self or other that comes from paying attention to something outside the self.

When engaging in work practice, a Soto Zen student is interacting with the totality of all the elements arising within the context of that activity. This means that one makes effort to fulfill the task in such a way that one is respectful of the tools used, the context of the work, the instructions of the work leader, the time allotted for the task, and working in unison with others. The purpose of our effort is to complete the job through our total exertion and practice with the task itself. It is not to be mindful of the activity as an object of our attention. When we are able to engage in work this way, we drop our own agenda and fully engage with the complete activity of cleaning and community.

Included in this intimate total immersion in the being-time of a particular moment is the simultaneous arising of all being-time. This nondualism is not separate from the relative or everyday. Washing dishes is not special. By entering the world of washing dishes, we enter the whole world, which is our world, by jumping in with wholehearted effort.

Dharmas Are Real Form

Nishijima and Cross translate Waddell and Abe's "penetrating exhaustively" as "perfectly realizing" and associate it with a phrase from the Lotus Sutra: "buddhas alone, together with buddhas, can perfectly realize that all dharmas are real form." Dogen unpacks the meaning of real form in "Shoho Jisso" (All Dharmas Are Real Form):

"Real form is all dharmas. All dharmas are forms as they are, natures as they are, body as it is, the mind as it is, the world as it is, clouds and rain as they are, waking, standing, sitting, and lying down, as they are; sorrow and joy, movement and stillness, as they are; a staff and a whisk, as they are; a twirling flower and a smiling face, as they are; succession of the Dharma and affirmation, as they are; learning in practice and pursuing the truth, as they are; the constancy of pines and the integrity of bamboos, as they are."

This perfect realization is all dharmas totally expressing their true nature. We are "buddhas alone, together with buddhas." We remember the true state of ourselves and all being(s).

The integrated self is therefore not separate from all being-time. For this reason, Dogen writes earlier in "Uji," "to set the self out in array is to make the world," which is the singular expression of "entirely worldling the entire world with the whole world.""


"...Practice-realization is predicated on the actualization of our interconnection with all of life. Our practice is about realigning our behavior to reflect the truth of interconnection, not only from the perspective of the self, but also from the perspective of the totality of each thing arising simultaneously in this moment. Dogen comments in "Gyoji" (Continuous Practice):

'When the continuous practice which manifests itself is truly continuous practice, you may be unaware of what circumstances are behind it, and the reasons why you do not notice them is that to understand such a thing is not that special.'

When we don't force a moment of practice into a preconceived idea, we find that we may not recognize practice-realization when it arises. Dogen writes in "Kajo" (Everyday Activity) that the Zen masters manifests their understanding while drinking tea and eating rice. Understanding is manifest in the everyday activities in which we all engage. When we are trapped in the supposition that realization must have some special quality, we miss the fact. We tell ourselves that our current life is not special enough; therefore, it could not be a life realized.

If we follow this way of thinking, when we read that Zen masters express realization while drinking tea and eating rice, we believe that the being-time of their drinking and eating must be special and outside daily life. How could our eating and drinking be in the same league as that of a Zen master? Zen masters sit in grass huts, stillness radiating from the holy mountains that surround them, accompanied by the sound of a creek. Their tea is as green as the frog leaping into a nearby pool and their rice is infused with their enlightened nature. Surely they do not put their pants on one leg at a time!

From this erroneous view, we extrapolate that Zen masters are enlightened outside of the interactive arising of all dharmas, so-called daily life. Actually, Zen masters are Zen masters because they do not get caught in some idea about reality. Rather, they respond to the arising dharmas in such a way that they include the totality of each moment, thereby enacting realization. This is a fluid, continuous, impermanent response state.

When we respond with an idea about how we should be, we are forcing the moment. We get caught in thinking Zen is special and outside daily life. From this view, how could we understand our life as realized response? How can we possibly understand that when nothing special is happening, our life, just as it is, can resonate with realization? We don't recognize the skillful things we do as practice-actualization. Yet, each moment that we are able to fully participate in the totality of that moment is realized response. Enlightenment is not a fixed state residing within an individual. Rather we engage in enlightened behavior, at this time, responding in concord with the continuous practice of all beings worlding the world.

Do not underestimate your realization by negating it, and don't make it more than it is by concretizing it. Just pay attention to the business at hand. Zazen, going to the bathroom, chanting, going to work, or any other activity you can think of is an opportunity to fully inhabit our lives within the context of all life. Most of the time we don't even notice when we are fully occupying a moment."

"A Wind-Bell in Space

Dogen offers an example of the multiplicity of passage as the transmission of Buddhist ancestors in his fascicle "Maka Hannya Haramitsu" (The Perfection of Wisdom):

My late Master, the eternal Buddha says:
Whole body like a mouth, hanging in space;
Not asking if the wind is east, west, south or north,
For all others equally, it chatters prajna:

Chin Ten Ton Ryan Ten Ton.
This is the chattering of prajna [transmitted] by Buddhist
patriarchs from rightful successor to rightful successor.
It is prajna as the whole body, it is prajna as the whole of
others, it is prajna as the whole self, and it is prajna as the
whole east, west, south and north.

The wind-bell exemplifies passing in and through this moment's moment. The particular moment of the wind-bell's sounding is the culmination of the passage of wind, metal, sound, the bell, and the effort of all being-time throughout time and space. It is not just the direct cause and effect of wind moving the clapper.

A wind-bell hangs in space. This bell exists as an independent moment of being-time. It does not try to control the direction of the wind. The wind-bell does not perceive the wind as sequential. The wind itself is just the is-ness of the being-time of passage, it has no particular agenda called "moving the wind-bell's clapper." This wind's arising and this bell's being-time are mutually penetrating and mutually engaged in their activity. There is the passage of the bell and the passage of the wind. The bell is pure response. The wind is pure response. The east is response. The west is response, south and north are response. Nothing is left out. The wind-bell's song is the mutual penetration of everything seen and unseen. All passage is just this, and yet there is the moment of the wind-bell's sounding. This can be said of each element mentioned in the poem.

All together, affirming, rings out the voice of "Chin Ten Ton Ryan Chin Ten Ton." Because the wind-bell's voice is also the voice of all being-time, Dogen writes this is the affirmation of wisdom transmitting passage from "rightful successor to rightful successor." It is the wisdom of the whole body of universal being-time. This is also true for spring's passage. It is the wisdom of the particularity of a dharma that is both the independent self and the self of no-self of that dharma. It is the wisdom of everyday life called spring's-passage-being-time."

"...In the main story, a young man was a student of Master Gutei. This student didn't seem to realize what he was learning or practicing. Dogen comments, "a boy who attended Master Gutei (Judi), without noticing when he was learning or when he was practicing, realized the Way because he served as a personal attendant to the master who had been practicing for a long time." In the course of attending to Master Gutei, he attained realization.

By focusing on the activity of helping Master Gutei every day, the student was not aware he was being trained. He probably spent his time making the master's bed and fetching tea. Yet those activities, in accord with Master Gutei's instruction, created his passage from student to master. This transformation was due to the confluence of all the activities: all the befores and afters and the independent moments of the student's life with the master. His interactions with Master Gutei resulted in his total immersion in practice-realization. Transformation was always present, yet there was a particular moment of its recognition when Master Gutei acknowledged his passage into spiritual maturity.

Another example is found in "Udonge" (The Udumbara Flower). Dogen explains the awakening of Buddha's disciple Mahakasyapa. Buddha holds up a flower. Mahakasyapa, seeing the flower, smiles. The moment of Buddha-flower-smile is passageless-passage. Dogen describes it this way:

'All instances, however many, of the twirling of flowers, are individual instances of [the transmission from] rightful successor to rightful successor; they are the actual existence of the transmission. Indeed, forget the World-Honored One's twirling of a flower!... Because the time of twirling of flowers is the whole of Time itself, it is the experience of the same state as the World-Honored One, and it is the same twirling of flowers. The meaning of 'twirling flowers' is flowers displaying flowers [phenomena manifesting themselves as they are]: it is plum flowers, spring flowers, snow flowers, and lotus flowers.'

Furthermore,

'Twirling flowers are twirled by eyes, twirled by mind-consciousnesss, twirled by nostrils, and twirled by flowers twirling. In general, the mountains, rivers, and the Earth; the sun and moon, the wind and rain, people, animals, grass, and trees - the miscellaneous things of the present displaying themselves here and there - are just the twirling of the udumbara flower.'

Just one flower being held up for display is passage through all time and being, awakening each and every thing. This is what Mahakasyapa realized. Essentially his realization was already present as his own being, yet it was the passage of all buddha-nature in and through him that revealed his true nature. This is our passage too.

Carefully Examine the Matter

Dogen ends this paragraph with the admonition 'All of this you must give careful and repeated examination.' At each critical juncture of the text, Dogen reminds us to pay attention. We want to grapple with this teaching in such a way that it brings us back to our present situation. In particular, understanding passage is critical to conceptualizing how practice-realization is enacted. In this case, the story of Gutei's student is instructive. His awakening is the result of his complete immersion in the activity of his life, through the guidance of his teacher. His realization did not come about because of his preconceived idea about enlightenment.

Realization is not intellectual understanding. Dogen warns us in 'Bendowa' (Wholehearted Practice of the Way):

'We should remember that from the beginning we have never lacked the supreme state of bodhi, and we will receive it and use it forever. At the same time, because we cannot perceive it directly, we are prone to beget random intellectual ideas, and because we chase after these as if they were real things, we vainly pass by the great state of truth.'

Of course, this book, Dogen's 'Uji', and all of Buddhist writings and teachings are a product of the mind and heart. We must use them as pointers along the path of practice. Deep understanding of Buddhism is always grounded in dharma teachings, dharma teachers, and dharma community. Guidance in practice happens within the context of connection with these three elements. Teachings, teachers, and community give us the forum to explore, actualize, and be confirmed in our understanding. In this way we are able to 'carefully explore the matter' of being-time's actualization in daily life, not in our heads.

Before I began to write this book, I did not realize the immense scope of Dogen's vision of being-time. But no matter what I think I know about being-time, it is stopping and being in my being-time just as it is, enacting the no-self of my exertion with all being that is actualizing being-time. This is enacted in the context of my Buddhist practice community. It is actualized at the supermarket, while driving my car, or when walking the dog. Nothing other than living one's life completely in the Way is actualizing being-time's passage."

"...Practice-realization is only expressed in the now. Practice-realization is not something acquired and then never revisited. A fully realized being can constantly express buddha-nature in a continuous series moment after moment. As Dogen says (again in 'Gyoji'):

On the great road of buddha ancestors there is always unsurpassable practice, continuous and sustained. It forms the circle of the way and is never cut off. Between aspiration, practice, enlightenment, and nirvana, there is not a moment's gap; continuous practice is the circle of the way."

"Immediate Present, Ultimate Dharma
Since our activity is not a progression from delusion to enlightenment made solely by the independent self, Dogen defines the first thought of practice as 'immediate present ultimate Dharma' or genjokoan: the presence and perfection of all dharmas as they are in the here-and-now.' Hee-Jin Kim further explains the meaning of genjokoan:

'It does not suggest an evolutionary ascent from hidden-ness to manifestation, or from imperfection to perfection, or conversely, an emanational descent from one to many, or from reality to appearance. Rather, things, events, beings are already unmistakably what they truly are; what is more, they are vibrant, transparent, and bright in their as-they-are-ness.'

This 'mind' of or intention for 'immediate present ultimate Dharma' is things-as-they-are-ness, or being-time. When we find ourselves wishing that we could experience our life with equanimity, compassion, and wisdom, we are listening and connecting with what is already present within ourselves and all of life. This inmost request is an expression of each being's continuous practice-realization. Even when we feel most alone, we are still embedded in community. Even when we think our delusion cannot go deeper, we are accompanied by enlightenment. In each moment that we glean a small part of the totality of life, the whole is never missing. As Dogen Zenji says, 'But do not ask me where I'm going / As I travel in this limitless world / Where every step I take is my home.'"

"'Uji' is one of Dogen's most revered and difficult texts. In it, he attempts to clearly elucidate the meaning of practice within the context of the totality of the world's expression. Reaching or not-reaching, blinking an eye, reciting the robe verse, driving to work, caring for a parent, or weeding the garden - in every activity, we transmit and receive the Buddhadharma. Everything recites the sutra of uji, in the midst of joy and gratitude, grief and pain. Heeding the words of Old Buddha Dogen, we have faith that nothing is missing; practice-realization is not apart from us."
Also see: Flowers Fall: A Commentary on Zen Master Dogen's Genjokoan

Session Start: Thursday, September 11, 2008

(7:40 PM) AEN:    Satellite understands anatta rite? http://now-for-you.com/viewtopic.php?t=4315&start=120
(7:40 PM) AEN:   
Yes.

Although duality is a mind state, not all mind states are dualistic.

In the absence of the sense of separation, the phenomen-ing of thought still arises. Just as there is feeling without a feeler, seeing without a see-er, thinking without a thinker arises. For it to be dualistic it requires a secondary layer of thought or belief that says it is 'my' thought.

A clear 'seeing' that subject and object are always, always one (or indeed none), renders all this struggle unnecessary. All there can ever be is Oneness appearing as this ever-fresh self-shining display. The separation is the imposition - though admittedly a very compelling one.

.

Session Start: Friday, September 12, 2008

(1:16 PM) Thusness:    Satellite yes. :)  If this state is truly stabilized, DO must be understood intuitively.

...


(11:31 PM) AEN:    btw this is Anatta as action rite:
It sounds completely paradoxical, but realization only has meaning for the person.

I say paradoxical because the myth is that realization means seeing that the person is nonexistent.

But this is only true from a certain perspective (so to speak.)

Right now, the person can be seen to be insubstantial, not separate and impermanent.

Its 'existence' is like that of a river. It cannot be found, yet it is not truly absent.

It is verb-like. The happening of person-ing is apparent.

It's within this stream that the 'realization event' arises.


The realization is that I am the Source and essence of this person-ing that is streaming in to view.

This is not to lose the person-ing, but to see it in its ultimate context.

(11:54 PM) Thusness:    the text above is by satellite?
(11:54 PM) AEN:    person-ing?
(11:54 PM) AEN:    ya
(11:55 PM) Thusness:    Seldom do we see practitioner having such clarity and experience

...

(11:25 PM) AEN:    Phroggy wrote:
(11:25 PM) AEN:    Initiated a file transfer
(11:25 PM) AEN:    Okay, so, like, I just figured out where all the discussion about Consciousness with Satellite was going after watching a video of Kevin Edwards. In fact, I think something has been brewing here for a while and it may not be done yet.

Basically, what I was trying to say in the discussion here is that mind automatically structures everything dualistically. That is, subject----verb----object, and yet in every case, the subject and object are assumed, leaving only the verb. If you hang in with me, I'll explain, and it looks pretty cool from here.

We say Consciousness expresses in form, but is there really a Consciousness apart from that expression, or is Consciousness just a conceptual subject supplied by the mind so that it seems to come from somewhere? What if Consciousness is it's content, such that the expression is all there is to this Consciousness thingy? Also, is there really a form? Do we know that, or do we also assume the existence of the object? I'm saying there is no subject and there is no object, just the expression itself. Consciousness IS that expression.
(11:25 PM) AEN:    Initiated a file transfer
(11:25 PM) AEN:   

Lets take thought. We say The thinker thought a thought. Is there a thinker or a conceptual thing we call a thought, or is there just thinking arising. Is there really any more to it than that? The subject and object are assumed and have no reality at all. Lets take Awareness. We say Awareness is aware of a tree. The subject and object are assumed and there is just awareness itself. There is no Awareness anywhere. It's existence is literally inherent to it's being aware. There is no object to Awareness either, and so we might say that the tree is awareness happening, but in the absence of an object we call a tree.
(11:25 PM) AEN:   

Listening to Kevin tonight, it came together for me when he said something like 'You say, "I see a plant". Now, throw away the point of reference, the I that sees.' In this, there is just the seeing of the plant without anybody seeing, and in fact the plant isn't even there, so there's just the seeing. No subject (me) and no object seen, just the perception iteself, inseparable from any other subject, and identical with all objects, because all subjects and all objects are literally the perceiving itself. In this way, everything is one thing, in the absence of thingness and in the absence of a separate perceiver. There is just experience happening. No experiencer and nothing experienced. If mind insists on retaining it's made up subject and object, then we can say the experiencer IS the experiencing itself, and the experiencing IS the experienced, and they all become one.
(11:28 PM) AEN:    wat u tink
(11:28 PM) AEN:    oh and Satellite just replied:
(11:28 PM) AEN:   

With a touch less of the slightly metaphysical tone, this could be the work of a Mahayana Buddhist.

Yes. Only experience (verb) or experiencing (without the usual dualistic split that is associated with these words.)

In this sense, there is nothing - only happenings, only experiencing.
(11:28 PM) AEN:    Yet in order for apparent communication and interaction, experience is conceptually divided into parts.

Right now, all there is is seamless experience. The phone rings - now it might be clumsy to say that the ring is an expression of experience - but it could be said that experience is arising as the sound of the phone. So now we have experience... arising as a something.

We are not saying that experience is apart from the thing experienced... only that language/conceptual thought can make it look that way.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    Yes good
(11:31 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    Anatta
(11:32 PM) Thusness:    Next step is to go non-conceptual
(11:32 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:33 PM) AEN:    u mean phroggy shld practice non-conceptuality?
(12:23 AM) AEN:    u mean after realising anatta then shld practice non conceptuality
(1:24 AM) Thusness:    What is the url?
(1:24 AM) AEN:    which url
(1:24 AM) AEN:    oh
(1:25 AM) AEN:    http://now-for-you.com/viewtopic.php?t=4543
(1:35 AM) Thusness:    There r different depth to this experience.
(1:35 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    One can still turn conceptual and cannot experience the vividness of this anatta experience
(1:37 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:38 AM) Thusness:    The Tendency to grasp this understanding conceptually will normally last for another few yrs or longer.
(1:39 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:39 AM) AEN:    btw phroggy realised anatta?
(1:40 AM) Thusness:    The 'reminding' will step in until stage 5 goes non-conceptual and arise as sound, scenery, taste...
(1:40 AM) Thusness:    Yes
(1:40 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:41 AM) AEN:    reminding as in
(1:41 AM) AEN:    conceptually thinking it?
(1:41 AM) Thusness:    But there must be direct experience.
(1:41 AM) AEN:    oic
(1:41 AM) Thusness:    Reminding oneself of this new found truth.
(1:41 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:42 AM) AEN:    but when he realised its not just a conceptual understand right? like he realised it?
(1:43 AM) Thusness:    Soon
(1:43 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:43 AM) Thusness:    But not yet
(1:43 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:43 AM) Thusness:    Not like satellite
(1:44 AM) AEN:    oic why
(1:44 AM) AEN:    oh
(1:44 AM) Thusness:    But stage 6 is a lil different.
(1:44 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:47 AM) Thusness:    this in buddhism is the right view
(1:47 AM) Thusness:    The next step is to see the DO (Dependent Origination) nature.

(1:59 AM) Thusness:    You see most ppl will know how different the experience is between 'I AMness' and anatta
(1:59 AM) Thusness:    After the experience
(2:00 AM) Thusness:    It is obvious otherwise he would not have made that comment
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    Future understanding is the dependently originate nature.
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    That is emptiness
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    Then leading to effortless non-conceptuality
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    Then self liberation

Session Start: Friday, October 17, 2008

(11:44 PM) Thusness:    proggy after discussion with satellite came to understand consciousness as phenomena-ing...as action, as verb
(11:44 PM) Thusness:    language brought about the delusion that there is a subject and object division.
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    actually it is not just language, attachment.
(11:46 PM) Thusness:    proggy must later move from 5 aggregates to 18 dhatus, eliminating the mental formation.
(11:47 PM) Thusness:    then she will find delight in DO.

(10:01 PM) Thusness:    actually Proggy wrote very well the post.
(10:01 PM) Thusness:    is there a subject
(10:01 PM) Thusness:    it is just that one experience.
(10:01 PM) Thusness:    however there are few more important points to take note after initial insight.
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    she seems to stop writing liao

(10:06 PM) Thusness:    Actually if u understood what Satellite and Phroggy meant, u will realise that John Myrdhin, isn't there yet.
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    If there is just one Happening where subject and object are merely assumed, how can there be manifestation of the mind.
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    There is just manifestation or just experience or just mind. (Also see: Flowers Fall: A Commentary on Zen Master Dogen's Genjokoan)
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    No more confusion with 'forms' and 'formlessness'
(10:09 PM) Thusness:    It was only when a practitioner is still assuming that there is a subject and object that such distinction exist.
(10:10 PM) Thusness:    otherwise it is just one expression, one body, one reality.
(10:10 PM) Thusness:    one happening...nothing else...
(10:11 PM) Thusness:    yet after this experience due to the 'tendency to divide', there will definitely be a period of desync.  If a practitioner cannot pass the test, his experience will not be stabilized and liberation will not be experienced.
(11:00 PM) Thusness:    By the way it is because we are unable to see with complete clarity that appearance is awareness that 'practice' is necessary.
(11:02 PM) Thusness:    Otherwise 'practice' is just every moment of experience
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LeanderThanks for all the answers, it means a lot to me and makes it a lot more bearable already.

@An Eternal Now: ive read the first link. Suzanne Segals story and the two types of nondual contemplation after I AM.
i have to admit that just reading the contemplation spikes some panic in me because it implys i have to go further into no-mans land. Things like "theres no seer, just seeing". it makes me feel even less existent. As if thats the missing nail in the coffin to destroy me once and for all.


Fear and panic arises due to the misconception that 'I' have existed in the first place and has to dissolve. This is a misunderstanding. There is no 'I' behind the seeing which is none other than colors, no 'I' or 'hearer' that is behind the hearing which is none other than sounds. Nothing needs to dissolve, it is seen through and realized to be always already the case. You think that hearing and seeing is the job of an agent, a perceiver, a doer, and you are some detached perceiver, but in reality scenery sees and sound hears. The agent never was. It only appears to be real, and while the delusion is there, the appearance is very strong and hypnotic. There is a constant self-refencing, a tiresome and tedious process of referencing every experience back to a presumed agent out of ignorance, from 'just the seen' to 'I see'. The seeing/colors, hearing/sounds, action/activity happen first, followed by an unnecessary self-referencing to an imaginary agent. This sense of being a self, an agent, a perceiver, a doer, can however be challenged, investigated, and seen through. With the illusion seen through, the process of self-making naturally stops, it is not so much that a self is destroyed as it was never truly there. Nothing is lost, and in losing an illusion you 'gain' the world.

The old Zen koan goes:

The man sitting atop the hundred foot pole:
Though he's gained entry, this is not yet the real.
Atop the hundred foot pole, he should step forward:
The universe in all directions is the whole body.

Nothing is destroyed any more than seeing through the belief in the real existence of santa claus actually destroys some santa claus. You just wake up to reality. Oh, life is happening brilliantly without a center, without the need for the fiction of a center, and life is much more marvellous, wondrous, alive, boundless and free than the tiresome and fearful holding and grasping on to an unnecessary self-contraction and imagined entity and all the related sufferings. It's like holding on to hot charcoal and yet strangely not willing to release it due to fear of the unknown. Once the illusion is seen through and released there is a sense of freedom, release and fearlessness in facing life (see: https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/08/fearless-samadhi.html )

Then there is no fear as this is realized to be always already the case. The notion that 'I' had existed at the center, experiencing and coordinating everything is unnecessary and unfounded. The absence of self and agent is also experienced positively as everything is brilliantly alive and self-luminous, the quality of 'witnessing' which was once seen as a background observer now is felt as a quality of everything revealing itself to itself. The seeing is seen-seeing, colors and sounds and sensations are just felt vividly where they are instead of being experienced from some vantagepoint of self. It is not a static state of detached uninvolvement in life, there is complete engagement and intimacy in all actions, chop wood, carry water.

What is called pure consciousness experience becomes effortless and natural: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/pce.htm , and in this state there can be no dissociation. If you do not experience the aspect of intense luminosity then joy and liveliness will not be felt (see: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-importance-of-luminosity.html ) The intimacy is not the intimacy of two entities meeting each other but the sense of gaplessness, when hearing a sound the sound is as if 'you', closer than your breath, when seeing the blue sky the blue sky is as if 'you', closer than your heartbeat. Everything is alive and vivid. So how can there be dissociation and derealization?

For a theoretical understanding of no-self also see http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_baggini_is_there_a_real_you

For the experiential insights into no-self/anatta refer to On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
 
 
William Jeffery Pratt:
Dear AEN,

Poignant and veracious.

Yet, the organism that hasn't awakened and the awakened organism will both automatically recoil when it unknowingly touches a red hot fire.


The recoiling as a pure bodily function and activity will happen spontaneously without self-referencing. It is necessary and useful for the survival of this organism, be it awakened or not. It does not come with the kind of self-contraction and fear and grasping before awakening.

Some people will have glimpses of this 'spontaneous happening' even without realizing anatta. For example they may wake up from sleep and experience the body coughing by itself, too fast before the sense of self kicks in as they just woke up (the structures of subject/object, identity, selfing, takes some time to kick in after arousing from sleep). But then the sense of a detached observer then quickly kicks in, and there's a sense "oh I was just watching this thing, the body is doing its thing and I'm not the doer, I am the watcher". This is an experience of non-doership but NOT what I call realization of anatta, therefore dissociation still happens. Most people who have certain glimpses of non-self are talking about an experience of non-doership, which is not necessarily a non-dual experience, or a peak experience of PCE, but even if he/she experiences a PCE it is still not what I call the realization of anatta. Even one realizes non-dual luminosity as always undivided, they may still fall into the case of Thusness Stage 4 - subject/object non-division rather than realizing true anatta or no-subject of Thusness Stage 5 - Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

As I often said (elsewhere) - for 8 years now, there has not been the slightest sense of agency, an agent, or subject/object division in any situation. Non-doership, no agent, and no subject-object division (vivid non-dual luminosity) all at once. Spontaneous and effortlessly so as a natural state. The aspect of no agent must be clear, not just non-doership, and not just subject/object non-division or non-dual luminosity either.

Like seeing a picture puzzle, once you see it and the insight stabilizes, you can't unsee it even if you want to.
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Adyashanti:

https://www.adyashanti.org/teachings/library/writing#a-seamless-existence

In spiritual realization, if we mistake the first blush, the by-products of first discovery, for that which we’ve discovered, then we remain a kind of immature lover. An immature lover endlessly mistakes love for the experience of falling in love. In the same way, we may remain an immature realizer. We may have realized something, but we can remain in an immature state: “I want it to be this way all the time. I want it to feel like, ‘Oh, my God!’ all the time.” You’re not going to get past the threshold of the doorway of reality doing that. Experience teaches us that, and then we start to let go of it. We move beyond the ego mind into just being what we are. 

That matures for a while. And then at some point, there may be a vast expanse of consciousness. It's like being a conscious, awake, alive, vibrant “nothing.” And it's a great nothing to be—a totally ascendant, transcendent experience. But it starts to dawn on you, “Okay, I am the nothing as opposed to everything else. Something doesn’t quite add up. There’s still some division. Maybe this isn’t the entire picture.” Not that you have to throw away what you’ve realized, but maybe there’s more to the picture. “Maybe it’s not just this stark duality that I have going, being the aware, awake nothing of consciousness and the everything of existence, the form of existence. That’s a fundamental duality.” 

When that interest arises in you, it starts to help. There’s a clutching that you don’t even know is happening. It’s deep in the unconscious. It’s holding on to the new identity of formlessness. There’s a great tendency to want to stay there because it’s a kind of heaven. And you can understand why, because life’s a rough ride sometimes, and then you come into contact with something that’s never been harmed and can’t be harmed ever, and is always there, something that nobody can give you or take away from you. It is such an amazing relief and security to experience something like that. One is not quick to let it go, nor should we be quick to let it go. But it does arise that there may be more to this story. 

That curiosity starts to loosen the unconscious holding on to the new identity as formless awareness. It’s not that the formless awareness identity has to go anywhere; it’s just that the clutching at it starts to loosen. And as it loosens, then the witness position relinquishes itself, and the witnessing collapses into the witnessed. When the holding starts to be relinquished, it’s the descending movement. It descends down into the heart. When this descent happens, the heart starts to awaken, and the witness collapses into the witnessed. Then we start perceiving through the heart, seeing through the heart. Then the witness and what is witnessed seem to be one. They’re the same. 

It's a grand inclusion and the waking up of a perceptual capacity from the heart that sees the underlying unity of existence. Experientially, it’s like looking up at a tree and feeling as if the tree is seeing itself. Or you look up at the sky and it feels as though the sky is seeing itself. Or you touch something and you feel as though what you’re touching is feeling itself.

There’s no subject-object relationship going on anymore. There’s just one seamless thing, whatever you want to call it. Ramana called it the Self. The Buddhists call it Buddha nature. You could even call it the perception of life experiencing itself. “Oh, I thought I was apart from life. I thought life was something that I was in and trying to negotiate.” That’s the egoic perspective. “And now I see that I’m actually life itself, the whole of it, also appearing as a particular part at the same time.” You get to play both sides. 

Excerpted from Mount Madonna Retreat, February 2018
Sakya Paṇḍita’s Instruction on Parting from the Four Attachments

I prostrate at the feet of the noble lama!
Having obtained a body with all the freedoms and advantages, encountered the precious teachings of the Buddha, and genuinely aroused the right attitude, now we need to put the Dharma into practice without any mistake. For this, we must take to heart and practise the ‘Parting from the Four Attachments’.
What exactly does this imply?
—not being attached to the present life;
—not being attached to the three realms of saṃsāra;
—not being attached to your own self-interest;
—and not clinging to some true reality in things and their characteristics.
To explain this further:
It is futile to be attached to this life, since it is like a bubble on water, and the time of our death uncertain.
These three realms of saṃsāra are like a poisonous fruit, delicious at first, but ultimately harmful. Anyone who is attached to them must be deluded.
Attachment to your own self-interest is like nurturing the child of an enemy. It may bring joy at first, but in the end only leads to ruin. Just so, attachment to your own welfare brings happiness in the short term, but eventually leads you to the lower realms.
Clinging to true existence in things and their characteristics is like perceiving water in a mirage. For a moment it looks like water, but there is nothing there to drink. This saṃsāric existence does appear to the deluded mind, yet when it is examined with discriminating awareness, nothing, nothing at all, is found to have any intrinsic existence. So, having come to an understanding where your mind does not dwell in the past, the future, or the present, you should recognize all phenomena as naturally free from any conceptual complexity.
If you act in this way,
—by relinquishing attachment to this life, there will be no more rebirth in the lower realms,
—by relinquishing attachment to the three realms of saṃsāra, there will be no more rebirth in saṃsāric existence,
—by relinquishing attachment to your own self-interest, there will be no more rebirths as a śrāvaka or pratyekabuddha.
—finally, through abandoning any clinging to reality in things and their characteristics, you will swiftly attain complete and perfect buddhahood.
This completes Sakya Paṇḍita’s unerring instruction on the ‘Parting from the Four Attachments’, the enlightened intent of the glorious Sachen Kunga Nyingpo.

...

“If you are attached to this life, you are not a true spiritual practitioner;
If you are attached to saṃsāra, you have no renunciation;
If you are attached to your own self-interest, you have no bodhicitta;

If there is grasping, you do not have the View.” - Manjushri

...


G wrote: 

All these advice lead to nothing. Its all a kind of analysis-based summation. So you must sum all those different directions and try to make out something of them. Just more of the same old stuff. The mind gets addicted to an analytical seeking stance which tends to become the real conditioning.

Instead: there is only one POV in the universe. There had never been another; there will neve be another. There is no choice. Be aware of it. Be it..... Analyse what? In the last moments of life will there be time to go through all those clever advices?!
 


Andre replied:

several things I disagree with here.

First, I'm slowly realizing that disagreeing with and disparaging lineage masters is seldomly a good idea. We are ignorant little ants compared to them, so criticizing them only deepens the gap between
us.

Second, these instructions point to a gradual set of contemplations, each with its own realization. So the point is not to have a distillation of it all, but to gradually get to subtler realizations.

Thirdly, I don't think this is the same old stuff. It's old, indeed, but it is rarely reflected upon.

Forthly, the mind doesn't get addicted to conscious patterns of analysis. The mind is attached to subconscious tendencies, which that analysis is precisely trying to uproot.

Fifthly, analysis is a means to a non-conceptual realization. At the moment of death, it's that non-conceptual realization that is helpful, not the conceptual analysis.

Sixthly, what is that singular pov? If there is no choice, what is the point of instructing one to be aware of it? In the moment of death, clinging to the existence of some ultimate whatever isn't gonna help. It's grasping to one of the ontogical extremes and thus a ticket to more samsara




G: First, and what if the lineage of masters is an All-There-Is-is-Ground-Awareness lineage? Then its OK to disagree with and disparage?

Andre: G, it's never ok to disparage, even if their views are provisional or "inferior".

G: I had to look up the meaning of "disparage". I agree.

Lets drop this. I am in a premenstrual mood.

Just that, right now, looking at what others have to say about what the taste of the grapes I am eating makes no sense.





I wrote:

If anatta is realised there is no grasping at some ground awareness. “Awareness” is not referring to a truly existing undifferentiated oneness but just an empty convention like weather, a convenient label for the multiplicity of self luminous disp
lays. Analysis on this point is required until one directly realises this beyond a shadow of doubt, then all appearances arise as one’s radiance as the bardo thodol (“tibetan book of the dead”) often emphasize is the requirement for liberation while dying.

The advice posted by Andre above can be summarised as completely non attached yet fully engaged. This is the practice-actualization after anatta realisation and has to penetrate all three states to be of help at death. http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../tibetan-book...

When anatta matures, one is fully and completely integrated into whatever arises till there is no difference and no distinction.

When sound arises, fully and completely embraced with sound yet non-attached. Similarly, in life we must be fully engaged yet non-attached
 

Mason posted:

Kyle, Robert: Our conversation reminded me of this beautiful quote from Zen Master Hakuin:

"Hence the Meditation Sutra's preaching is perfectly clear: 'The height of the buddha's body is ten quadrillion miles multiplied by the number of sand particles in sixty Ganges rivers.' Can someone tell me: Is this colossal body the Sambhogakaya? Is it the Nirmanakaya? Or is it the Dharmakaya? We saw before that the Sambhogakaya and Nirmanakaya appear to benefit sentient beings in response to their various capacities. Yet how large would a world have to be to accomodate such a buddha? Can you imagine the gigantic size of the sentient beings to whom he would appear? And don't say that because sentient beings in a Pure Land of such size would be correspondingly large, a buddha would have to manifest himself in a large form too. If that were true, wouldn't bodhisattvas, religious seekers, and everyone else who inhabited such a world have to be of similar size as well: 'ten quadrillion miles multiplied by the number of sand partciles in sixty Ganges rivers'?

A river the size of the Ganges measures forty leagues across; its sands are as fine as the smallest atoms. Not even a god or demon could count the sand in a single Ganges river, or in half a Ganges river - or even, for that matter, the sand in an area ten feet square. And we are talking about the sand in sixty Ganges! The all-seeing eyes of the Buddha himself could not count them. These in essence are numbers that cannot be reckoned, calculations beyond calculating. Yet they contain a profound truth which is among the most difficult to grasp of all those in the Buddha's sutras. It is the golden bone and the golden marrow of the Venerable Buddha of Boundless Life.

If I had to say anything about it at all, it would be that the sand in the those sixy Ganges rivers alludes to the colors and forms, the sounds, and the rest of the six dusts that appear as objects to the six sense organs. Not one of all the myriad dharmas exists apart from these six dusts. When you fully awaken to the fact that all the dharmas perceived in this way as the six dusts are, in and of themselves, the golden body of the Buddha of Boundless Life in its entirety, you transcend the realm of samsaric suffering right where you stand and become one with supreme perfect enlightenment.

At that moment, everywhere, both east and west alike, is the Land of the Lotus Paradise. The entire universe in all directions, not a pinpoint of earth excepted, is none other than the great primordial peace and tranquility of Vairochana Buddha's Dharma body. It pervades all individual entities, erasing all their differences, and this continues forever without change."

- "Authentic Zen" by Hakuin, from collection The Essential Teachings of Zen Master Hakuin, trans. Norman Waddell

 ....

http://home.primusonline.com.au/peony/song_of_zazen.htm

HAKUIN ZENJI - SONG OF ZAZEN
Dharma poem by Hakuin Ekaku [1685-1768],

Translated  by Robert Aitken Roshi.

All beings by nature are Buddha,
as ice by nature is water;
apart from water there is no ice,
apart from beings no Buddha.
How sad that people ignore the near
and search for truth afar,
like someone in the midst of water
crying out in thirst,
like a child of a wealthy home
wandering among the poor.
Lost on dark paths of ignorance
we wander through the six worlds,
from dark path to dark path we wander,
when shall we be freed from birth and death?
For this the zazen of the Mahayana
deserves the highest praise:
offerings, precepts, paramitas,
Nembutsu, atonement, training--
the many other virtues--
all rise within zazen.
Even those with proud attainments
wipe away immeasurable crimes--
where are all the dark paths then?
the Pure Land itself is not far.
Those who hear this truth even once
and listen with a grateful heart,
treasuring it, revering it,
gain blessings without end.
Much more, if you dedicate yourself
and confirm your own self-nature--
that self-nature is no nature--
you are far beyond mere argument.
The oneness of cause and effect is clear,
not two, not three, the path is put right;
with form that is no form
going and coming--never astray,
with thought that is no thought
singing and dancing are the voice of the Law.
Boundless and free is the sky of samadhi,
bright the full moon of wisdom,
truly is anything missing now?
Nirvana is here, before your eyes,
this very place is the Lotus Land,
this very body the Buddha.