Also see: Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives


Session Start: Wednesday, February 11, 2009

(6:35 PM) AEN:    http://dharmaoverground.wetpaint.com/thread/2385161/Sharing+like+back+in+the+day...
looking foward to hearing the discussion :P
(6:49 PM) AEN:   
When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!
this became apparent to me just now
(6:49 PM) AEN:    the more the self disappears the more everything manifest its clearness
(6:50 PM) AEN:    and naturalness
(6:51 PM) AEN:    and spaciousness... but spaciousness is not like void.. but the more spacious the more clear everything is..
(6:56 PM) AEN:    today im surprisingly awake even though i only slept 2 hours
(6:57 PM) AEN:    btw posted something on buddhism and taoism here: http://www.sgclub.com/singapore/difference_between_127679.html
its after i wrote this then i search the internet for something then found the zisirum blog
(6:58 PM) AEN:    but i tink my post is too chim for the person :P
(12:56 AM) Thusness:    don't deviate from the path
i wrote in the forum
(12:57 AM) AEN:    oic..
(12:58 AM) Thusness:    whatever u experienced is already this way, when u continue u r only enhancing the imprints and ignorance
(12:59 AM) Thusness:    if u r unable to get out now, do u think u r able to get out after continuously re-enforcing ur imprints?
all actions leaves imprints
(12:59 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:00 AM) Thusness:    observe ur thoughts, see is there any agent
truly experience it
(1:01 AM) Thusness:    if u see, u r naturally non-dual
(1:01 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:01 AM) Thusness:    so why is there a need to go a big round and ended up with all wrong views?
(1:02 AM) Thusness:    if there is no self, u r already most direct...where is there a need to be non-dual
if u don
(1:02 AM) Thusness:    if u don't understand propensities, u will never know how it blinds u
(1:02 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:04 AM) Thusness:    yet even anatta, u will still not understand DO.  If u r lucky, it takes u 3-5 years to have ur divided consciousness view being replaced.
if u r unlucky, it can take u lives.
(1:04 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    it is very difficult to have permanent lucidity and u should start from now.
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    i m not belittling ur teacher, but she is not there yet even at this age
(1:05 AM) Thusness:    do u think u have that dedication and sincerity like her in practice?
(1:06 AM) AEN:    no
(1:06 AM) Thusness:    so don't continue to enhance urself with wrong understanding
(1:06 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness:    rather after having the views, practice to have these views be authenticated in actual experience.
(1:07 AM) Thusness:    when realise anatta, there will be a period to get accustomed to sync ur views with experience
(1:08 AM) Thusness:    it is not easy to do that
(1:08 AM) Thusness:    yet it is very important because we don't know consciousness
(1:09 AM) Thusness:    in additions to non dual and emptiness, u must experience imprints
(1:09 AM) Thusness:    and to have the right understanding, it can take u entire life
(1:09 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:10 AM) Thusness:    if u practice like that of the advaita, u will not even talk about imprints and dispositions
(1:10 AM) Thusness:    u do not know what is spontaneous arising in terms of dependent origination
u cannot know what is intention
(1:12 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:15 AM) AEN:    btw u saw my msgs earlier?
(1:16 AM) Thusness:    nope
(1:16 AM) AEN:    i cant remember what i sent u liao :P cos i sent u in sch
one of the things i ask u is what bks to recommend thevoice
(1:16 AM) Thusness:    regarding?
(1:17 AM) AEN:    he sent me a link to jill bolte taylor's video
then he asked me if i know of any talks
(1:18 AM) AEN:    then i sent him toni packer articles and the tejananda articles... cos i tink its more practical. i tink he looking for something more practical. i also told him he can look for the 'clarifying the natural state'
(1:18 AM) AEN:    but he also mentioned mahamudra is too complex for him he got a bit of experiences with that b4 or something last time
(1:19 AM) AEN:    btw i also ask u u mentioned last time thevoice knows the luminosity aspect... but he told me something like he dont know what pure awareness means and he has never experienced that before. but enhanced or expanded awareness maybe
(1:19 AM) AEN:    books also i mean. toni packer books i told him he can get them
(1:19 AM) Thusness:    yeah
(1:20 AM) AEN:    ?
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    i said his is he treat it like individuality
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    he knows the 'I'
(1:20 AM) Thusness:    but as individuality
(1:21 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    not as pure awareness
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    i told u "I AM" has various phase
(1:21 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:21 AM) Thusness:    means he knows he is not the body
(1:22 AM) Thusness:    not the eternal witness sort of experience
(1:22 AM) AEN:    different from witness?
(1:22 AM) Thusness:    not so much of witness but that he is more than a body
(1:22 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:23 AM) Thusness:    like spirit
but not a direct experience of "I"
(1:23 AM) AEN:    not a direct experience of 'I'?
wat u mean
(1:24 AM) Thusness:    it is like what that is being described in what u posted in the forum
it is not a direct experience of eternal witness
it is infering
(1:24 AM) Thusness:    relating
testing
but the person knows he is not the body
(1:25 AM) Thusness:    knows vaguely about awareness
(1:25 AM) AEN:    which part.. i posted a few things
(1:25 AM) Thusness:    but have not directly touch awareness
(1:25 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:26 AM) Thusness:    do u know that touching awareness directly even at the "I AM" is totally different from what that is being described
it is like what ken wilber said
(1:26 AM) AEN:    what is being described where
(1:26 AM) Thusness:    beyond the shadow of doubt
(1:26 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    like what ramakhrisna described
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    it is not the part where he said he is being carried as if he is dead
(1:27 AM) Thusness:    that is like what thevoice is experiencing
it is the direct experience of the I AM
(1:28 AM) Thusness:    complete stillness, ultimate, without thoughts
complete certainty
(1:28 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness:    ramakrishna at later phase is talking about that
resting completely as Self
(1:29 AM) Thusness:    i mean ramana maharishi...:P
(1:30 AM) AEN:    orh haha.. no wonder, never read much on rama krishna before
(1:30 AM) Thusness:    when he visualized that he is being dead and carried to be burnt
he realises he is not the body
(1:31 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    it is not the direct experience of "I AM"
(1:31 AM) AEN:    not?
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    yes
not
(1:31 AM) AEN:    oic
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    it is just a glimpse
(1:31 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:31 AM) Thusness:    not that direct experience
(1:32 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:32 AM) Thusness:    that experience is like what a Zen master asking a koan
it is that sort of experience
(1:32 AM) Thusness:    direct realisation of the 'I'
found it
without thoughts, no inference, entire and complete
(1:33 AM) Thusness:    just that experience rest in the I
not as everything
and the empty nature is not seen
that experience is correct
(1:34 AM) AEN:    icic..
correct?
(1:34 AM) Thusness:    yeah
have u read my stage 4
(1:34 AM) AEN:    yea
what about it
(1:34 AM) Thusness:    i said the sound is exactly like i am
(1:34 AM) AEN:    its same as "I AM" but in sound, etc rite
oh ya
(1:35 AM) Thusness:    it is not like ur experience of sound leh
(1:35 AM) AEN:    wat u mean
(1:35 AM) AEN:    its totally nondual u mean?
(1:35 AM) Thusness:    non dual is no separation
(1:35 AM) AEN:    ya
(1:36 AM) Thusness:    there are differing degree
(1:36 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness:    do u feel like u r God?
when one experiences "I AM", he feels like he is God
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    that sort of experience leh
(1:37 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    can that experience be ordinary?
(1:37 AM) AEN:    nope
(1:37 AM) Thusness:    it is transcendental
(1:37 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:38 AM) AEN:    just now u said the forum theres this article that was inferring and not direct experience
(1:38 AM) Thusness:    that is why one is led to the journey into perfecting that state
(1:38 AM) AEN:    which one u referring to
oic..
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    like u do this, shake a bit then u realise that
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    like it is like a screen...
nothing like that
(1:39 AM) AEN:    orh that one..
icic
(1:39 AM) Thusness:    u cannot understand awareness that way
either by self enquiry u directly experience it
or koan
(1:40 AM) Thusness:    there is no such thing as unsure
The Voice Clip could not be recorded.
(1:41 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:41 AM) AEN:    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6865032740128202927 -- first time i hear the voice of ramana. din know he can speak english
(1:41 AM) Thusness:    there are few ramana
(1:41 AM) AEN:    its ramana maharshi
(1:42 AM) AEN:    but maybe its not him
(1:47 AM) Thusness:    if a practitioner can experience like what maharshi experience as SELF in anatta, then he is near full enlightenment liao. :P
(1:47 AM) AEN:    oic..
u mean someone who experience anatta may not experience what ramana experience?
both are required?
(1:48 AM) Thusness:    it is the thoroughness
(1:48 AM) Thusness:    and the depth and degree of luminosity
(1:49 AM) Thusness:    for non-dual anatta to have that sort of presence, there must be complete effortlessness
(1:49 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:50 AM) Thusness:    because unlike concentrative mode of practice, non-dual or the formless and pathless path requires one to be completely effortless and spontaneous to have total non-dual luminosity
(1:51 AM) AEN:    oic..
(1:51 AM) AEN:    btw for ramana its still a concentrative mode of practice rite
like abiding on self
(1:52 AM) Thusness:    to me yes
(1:52 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:53 AM) Thusness:    the video is good
but don
(1:54 AM) AEN:    don?
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    it is a very good video
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    but don't post it in the forum
(1:55 AM) AEN:    orh haha icic.. ya i wont la :P
(1:55 AM) Thusness:    if a person can have that experience then go into nondual, it is different
if anatta can be experienced, it will be better
(1:56 AM) AEN:    oic..
wat u mean 'it is different'
(1:57 AM) Thusness:    a person can experience non-dual, there is no separation
but there is no such experience like "I AM"
(1:58 AM) Thusness:    so he does not have that 'quality' of experience
(1:58 AM) AEN:    icic..
(1:59 AM) Thusness:    however he a practitioner experience that "I AM" then when non-dual, he knows that there is such an experience
and all experiences are really like that
(1:59 AM) AEN:    oic..
the nondual experience will be more indepth?
(1:59 AM) Thusness:    no
it is all the same
(2:00 AM) Thusness:    but found in all manifestation
not as a stage
(2:00 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:00 AM) Thusness:    i wrote in luminousemptiness
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    that if luminosity and emptiness is taught but there is no realisation that it is the great bliss
(2:01 AM) Thusness:    then one has not realised anything
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    but chodpa said, not that it is pointless but just a step along the path
(2:02 AM) Thusness:    so what is it the geat bliss?
(2:03 AM) AEN:    absorption in luminosity?
clarity?
i dunno
(2:03 AM) AEN:    i have experience of bliss but dunnu if its wat u mean
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    it is actually a sort of absorption
(2:04 AM) AEN:    ya i notice theres bliss when theres absorption
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    will talk about that next time
i think i will write about anatta
(2:04 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:04 AM) Thusness:    so that u don't
get confused
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    with non-dual
(2:05 AM) AEN:    oic..
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    anatta is about no agent
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    clarity that there is no agent
(2:05 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:05 AM) Thusness:    and because there is no agent, it has to be direct
(2:06 AM) AEN:    oic
means in the sound just the sound
(2:06 AM) Thusness:    it is naturally non dual
(2:06 AM) AEN:    icic
i wrote something to u just now
but dunnu if u received
(2:06 AM) Thusness:    nope
(2:06 AM) AEN:   
(6:35 PM) AEN: http://dharmaoverground.wetpaint.com/thread/2385161/Sharing+like+back+in+the+day...
looking foward to hearing the discussion 
(6:49 PM) AEN:
When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!
this became apparent to me just now

(6:49 PM) AEN: the more the self disappears the more everything manifest its clearness
(6:50 PM) AEN: and naturalness
(6:51 PM) AEN: and spaciousness... but spaciousness is not like void.. but the more spacious the more clear everything is..
(6:56 PM) AEN: today im surprisingly awake even though i only slept 2 hours
(2:07 AM) AEN:   
(6:57 PM) AEN: btw posted something on buddhism and taoism here: http://www.sgclub.com/singapore/difference_between_127679.html
its after i wrote this then i search the internet for something then found the zisirum blog
(6:58 PM) AEN: but i tink my post is too chim for the person 
(2:07 AM) Thusness:    yes
i want to experience this clarity
(2:07 AM) Thusness:    u must sleep
later into anatta
(2:08 AM) AEN:    i slept i tink 2 hours in the evening i tink :P
(2:08 AM) Thusness:    what u experienced is non-dual
(2:08 AM) AEN:    oic
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    now u must practice anatta and letting go
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    u will naturally experience that clarity
(2:09 AM) AEN:    icic..
(2:09 AM) Thusness:    u must understand anatta and DO also implies imprints
u r always dealing with imprints
(2:10 AM) Thusness:    then wait for the right conditions for ripening of ur experience
(2:11 AM) AEN:    oic..
(2:14 AM) AEN:    http://buddhabra.blogspot.com/
journal of a journey.
Labels: | edit post
0 Responses