Thusness wrote years back:

Yes u should learn slowly and safely...no need to rush...half a year u will see the effect. My sensations r very powerful now...I want to focus my this technique for few months ... Anatta is very strong nowadays ... Wonder y...lol In addition to insights, the body has some serious obstruction that prevents full blown experience of no-self. When the intensity of sensation is strong, the transparency + insights of Anatta become very powerful and obvious...the natural intensity of sensations helps one to lose all sense of self too... Soh Wei Yu 9/14, 3:22pm Soh Wei Yu Intensity of sensations come from energy practice? Thusness: Yes
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Just some random short notes I have been wanting to jot down, reflecting my current understanding as experiential insight deepens in my practice.

....

Many people mistaken letting go and dispassion in terms of dissociation (a subject 'letting go' and 'standing back' from object). This is not true letting go or dispassion.

'In the seen just the seen' with no 'you in terms of that' is true dispassion. It is the state where each sound, each color, each sensation is happening on its own, manifests on its own as its own radiance, and yet there is completely no additional fabrication, or whatever kind of identity in relation to that. This complete emptiness of any kind of identity and clinging or subject-object relation in relation to 'in the seen just the seen', 'in the heard just the heard' is true dispassion.

A dissociated state is just another form of grasping, attachment. It is attaching at 'something' or 'someone' being more true and real than the rest of the field.

....


There's absolutely no need to attempt to bring anything whatsoever, presence, witnessing, whatever, into sleep or any states (waking, dreaming, and deep sleep). Any dualistic effort is a form of doing. Bringing in a watcher is karma. All dharmas, all phenomena, are fundamentally quiescent as nirvana, fundamentally non-arising and naturally manifesting as one's own state of radiance. Therefore true practice is resting in the natural, spontaneous perfection of luminosity and emptiness. Practice becomes dynamic rather than technique-bound as the spontaneous unfolding or self-arising of all displays, activities, sounds, colors, sensations, gets auto-actualized as the wisdom of luminous-emptiness. Everything arises as the state of meditation, which is non-meditation. Yet this requires anatta and emptiness as pre-requisite.


Therefore, it is always the eventuality of every practitioner to discover that spontaneous perfection is the only course of liberation. Yet one must also be wary of falling into a nihilistic extreme of interpreting non-action as not needing practice or effort. We still have to meditate, but this meditation becomes directionless (or more accurately, aimlessness and wishlessness -- one of the three doors of liberation) and without subject-object (I'm here, trying to get 'there') but immediate practice-enlightenment or instant actualization in every encounter or activity, sitting, walking, working, encountering people. This effort is not the same as the dualistic effort of trying to attain a result in the future, or trying to sustain a subject/object structure by bringing in a dualistic form of watching.

There can and should be effort and focus in practice, but this effort and focus is applied in a way that completely dissolves the subject/object structure rather than retain or strengthen it, for example when being mindful of the breathing, the breathing is its own attention and awareness, there is no dualistic attempt to 'shine the spotlight of awareness on an object or a subject'. Effort and focus, and effortlessness becomes one. This is why Dogen's teachings are very useful here to counteract the nihilism of the wrongful understanding of non-action.  The kind of "doing" or "action" we should be rid of is not "don't have to make any effort" but "not being affected by results/gain/loss", for it is the attachment to the results that are karmic. Each step, each breath, becomes the ends rather than the means -- it is the actualization of enlightenment/Buddha-nature rather than a means to get enlightenment in the future.

And this, also happens to be true non-meditation and non-action, beyond the sense of there being a meditator-meditation and actor-action.




"One time, Huineng, old Buddha of Caoxi, asked a monk, "do you depend upon practice and enlightenment?."

The monk replied,
"It's not that there is no practice and no enlightenment. Its just that it's not possible to divide them".

This being so, know that the undividedness of practice and enlightenment is itself the Buddha ancestors.

A walk with Dogen into our time xxv
The Essential Dogen: Writings of the Great Zen Master"
 
Chandrakirti:

"If you regard things as existent by virtue of (a reified) intrinsic reality, you thereby regard them as bereft of causes and conditions. And thereby you are condemning effects, causes, agents, actions, activities, originations, cessations, and even fruitional goals. Whatever is relativity we proclaim that emptiness. Nothing whatsoever is found which is not relativistically originated. Therefore, nothing whatsoever is found which is not empty. So if all things were not empty, there would be no origination and no destruction.

by Mipham Rinpoche

Namo Mañjuśrīye!
Once you have gone through the training in analysis
And developed confidence in the crucial point
Of how the individual is devoid of self,
Then consider how, just as the so-called “I” is
An unexamined conceptual imputation,
All phenomena included within
The five skandhas and the unconditioned are the same:
Labeled conceptually as this or that.
Although we apprehend all these various phenomena,
When we investigate and search for what's behind the labelling, it cannot be found.
And when we reach the ultimate two indivisibles,
Even the most subtle and infinitesimal cannot be established.
It is the same for all that appears through dependent origination:
Entities themselves arise dependently,
And ‘non-entities’ are dependently imputed.
So, whether an entity or non-entity,
Whatever is conceived of uncritically,
Once it is analyzed and investigated,
Is found to be without basis or origin —
Appearing yet unreal, like an illusion, dream,
Reflected moon, echo, city in the clouds,
Hallucination, mirage, and the like.
Appearing yet empty, empty yet appearing—
Meditate on the way empty appearances resemble illusions.
This is the ultimate that is categorized conceptually.
It has the confidence of a mind of understanding,
And is indeed the stainless wisdom of seeing
The illusory nature of post-meditative experience.
Yet it is not yet free from focus on apprehended objects,
Nor have the features of a subjective mind been overcome,
And so, since it has not gone beyond conceptuality,
The true reality of natural simplicity is not seen.
Once this kind of certainty has arisen,
Even clinging to mere illusion
Can be understood as conceptual imputation.
There is apprehension, but no essential nature to the perceived,
And even the perceiving mind cannot be found,
So, without clinging, one is brought to rest in natural ease.
Remaining like this, all perceptions,
Both external and internal, are not interrupted.
Yet within this fundamental nature, free from grasping,
All projections imposed upon phenomena,
Have never arisen and never ceased to be.
So, free from the duality of perceiver and perceived,
We rest in the all-pervading space of equality.
This is beyond any assertions, such as ‘is’ or ‘is not’.
And, within this inexpressible state of true and natural rest,
An experience dawns that is free from the slightest trace of doubt.
This is the actual nature of all things,
The ultimate that cannot be conceptualized,
And can only be known individually —
The non-conceptual wisdom of meditative equipoise.
Once you become familiar with this state,
In which emptiness and dependent arising are an inseparable unity,
The ultimate condition in which the two truths cannot be separated,
That is the yoga of the Great Middle Way.
Those who wish to realize this swiftly
And make evident non-dual, primordial wisdom
Beyond the domain of the ordinary mind,
Should meditate on the pith instructions of Secret Mantra.
This is the ultimate profound and crucial point
Of the progressive meditations on the Middle Way.
So, begin by thoroughly refining your conduct,
And then arrive at certainty, experientially and in stages.
With confidence in the illusory nature of empty appearance,
This is what it means for nothing to be removed or added on the path.
And, within the equality of the all-pervading space of perfect wisdom,
There is complete liberation.
In a place where people suffer drought and dehydration,
Hearing that there is water does not dispel thirst;
It is only by drinking that relief is found.
And this is how it is for learning and experience — so the sūtras say.
Someone with only dry, theoretical understanding,
Who is worn out by all kinds of reasoning and ideas,
Does not need sporadic practice; but, when meditating in proper stages:
Will swiftly gain acceptance of the profound.
Jampal Gyepe Dorje
wrote down whatever came to mind,
On the twenty-ninth day of the eleventh month of the Water Dragon year (1892).
Through this, may all beings realize the meaning of the profound Middle Way!
Maṅgalam!

| Translated by Adam Pearcey, 2006.


"People that have gone into the nihilistic understanding of 'non-doing' ended up in a mess. You see those having right understanding of 'non-doing' are free, yet you see discipline, focus and peace in them.

Like just sitting and walking... ...in whatever they endeavor. Fully anatta."

~ Thusness

"Peace is every step.
The shining red sun is my heart.
Each flower smiles with me.
How green, how fresh all that grows.
How cool the wind blows.
Peace is every step.
It turns the endless path to joy."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh

"Oprah Winfrey: Already just being in your presence for a short time, I feel less stressed than I did when I started out the day, because you have such a peaceful aura that follows you and that you carry with yourself. Are you always this content and peaceful?

Thich Nhat Hanh: This is my training, this is my practice, to live every moment like that. Relaxed, dwelling peacefully in the present moment, and respond to events with compassion."


"This is most difficult as it is actualization. Insight is just (the) beginning. If you simply just base on insight and do not actualize your insight in practice meeting situations, you will not have genuine and deep understanding."
~ Thusness




..............

Richard Cooper I think nihilistic beliefs need to explored like any others in order to find how they mislead and are belief rather than actuality.

I don't really understand why there is a need for actualisation unless insight hasn't really penetrated and is still intellectual/abstract. Is it to do with habitual responses ?
Manage
· Reply · 38m
Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu You see all the nihilistic beliefs spouted by people that advocate no practices since 'you are already what you seek', etc, usually in the neo-Advaita circle but not limited to it. There's a bunch of unhelpful bullshit out there and this article by Daniel M. Ingram illustrates the problems and limitations with such views succinctly - a must read: https://www.mctb.org/.../the-nothing-to-do-and-you-are.../

As for actualization, Daniel also wrote this -- despite stating this his realization of MCTB 4th path since 2003 has withstood all trials and challenges and remains completely stable since (same as my experience for almost 8 years now), in his own words: "any sense of a this-and-that is fundamentally completely uprooted at the perceptual level (not that ordinary discrimination doesn’t function as before), and that this holds up over the long-haul, meaning off-retreat and for years in the face of the strongest vicissitudes of life, across insight cycles, across jhanas and other shifts, and is the only and default perceptual mode at all times when there are any sensations of any kind occurring."

Still, there is still lots of integration in life --

"Accurately qualifying and quantifying depths of realization is a perpetually difficult business. In my own practice, I have noticed that realizations which occurred many years ago continue to percolate, continue to change how this Daniel operates, continue to benefit from cushion time and attention to dharma teachings and other practices, continue to benefit from interaction with other dharma practitioners and other social interactions, and seem to have no obvious endpoint in terms of how far they can go to gradually transform this organism. I have also mostly lived the life of a householder, being in graduate school and working at a professional job for most of my adult life except when on retreat. While caring for patients clearly has dharmic aspects to it, providing many opportunities to learn about suffering and to try to do something about it, there are those who have chosen lives dedicated to meditation and the reclusive life, and that causality can be significant." - https://www.mctb.org/.../depths-of-realization-and.../
Manage
Richard Cooper
Richard Cooper Thanks. It sounds to me like the difficulty those people have is an inability to recognise, question and explore their beliefs.

Seems like having the right attitude helps with actualisation too. I hope I am fortunate enough to have the right attitude !
Manage
· Reply · 3m

On a short break from winterizing greenhouses t.k. was asked. Q: “What is central to spiritual realization?. Spontaneously he answered:  "Foremost know this: if realization, by whatever name, non-dual wisdom, Buddha Nature, Truth, Reality, Tao, the kingdom of heaven …….  does not set the heart alight with tender hearted great compassion, if it does not cause the body to swoon in great exaltation perception of all appearance as divinity, if it ever changes in waking or sleeping …. then it is not realization.

What is central to realization? Well its depth and vastness cannot ultimately be described in words but there can be pointers as to its mystery. I will speak from this body mind’s own experience and understanding for what it is worth.

The mind untouched by any stain of birth or death - this is central.

A heart imbued with tender hearted compassion for every being seemingly friend or enemy, relative or stranger – this is central.

That body, speech and mind experience, without contrived concepts, all appearance as a pervasion of divinity, mysterious, utterly beautiful – the wondrous magical illusion of Buddha Nature – this is central.

To be free of any concern with worldly possessions whether impoverished or wealthy – this is central.

That the cells of the body be constantly inspired by the longing and radiance of prayer, even in the midst of stable realization of emptiness – this is central.

That the very notions status, high or low, is laughable – this is central.

That one is steadfastly occupied with the benefit of beings – this is central.

That one is free from all interest in Dharma politics – this is central.

That no trace of phenomena can any longer be found – this is central.

Realization is not an experience. In realization both poles of experience – perceiver and perceived – have dissolved, resolved, disappeared in the luminous ground whose essence is unutterable mystery and whose nature is clear light divinity. Anything that can in any way be described as experience, as involving a subject or an object – falls short of profound realization.

Realization does not come and go – once entered with authentic totality it never changes, ceases, comes or goes in the so-called waking or sleeping states.

Realization does not give one status – realization is not status but rather it is the death of even the possibility of thinking or feeling that appearances participate in the anxious ugliness of higher and lower.

Take refuge in the most profound wisdom compassion. Take up the way and follow with earnest care and sincerity. Don’t fret to much about what realization is or isn’t because any idea about it is based in confusion and falls far far short of the reality. Instead purify obstacles and hindrances to seeing things exactly as actually are, cultivate tender hearted and active compassion with a profound concern for cause and effect while practicing the view and meditation which transcend cause and effect.

Do not rely on others for no one can do your work for you and no one will enjoy or suffer the karmic consequences of your actions other than you. At the same time as this do not be shy about binding yourself to the sublime sources of wisdom that ceaselessly manifest in myriad ways. Realization cannot be bought or sold with money or other bartered goods. Day by day, step by step and the result is assured." - t.k., recent teachings