Wrote to someone:

There is a vast stillness in which time is limitless, dynamic yet still (dogen calls it the aspect of time which does not fall away) and space is boundless. As for time, it feels like being in this boundless and luminous world of time, there is no sensation of time falling away, passing by, nor is there a 'you' to fall out of it.

However it is not a formless and spaceless metaphysical substratum behind phenomena but is the
boundless luminous world itself


The stillness free of any center or identity is both still and silent, equanimous and unpertubable. The equanimity that you said should indeed not be interpreted as some ultimate ground of being.

The Buddha said, I dwell in safety, fearlessness and intrepidity. (which was born out of his knowledge and confidence in what he has realized)

There is not however some unchanging basis that is temporarily modulating into temporal forms. Not at all.

There is just being time, temporality is buddha nature (the true nature of existence), with only 'you' standing in the way of its stillness and boundlessness being apparent.


 John Tan, 2009:

I think realization and development will eventually reach the same destination.


A practitioner that experience the “Self” will initially treat
1.The “Source as the Light of Everything”.
then
2. He/she will eventually move to the experience that the “Light is really the Everything”.

In the first case, the Light will appear to be still and the transience appears to be moving. Collapsing of space and time will only be experienced when one resides in Self. However if the mind continues to see the 'Light' as separated from the 'Everything' , then realization will appear to be apart from development.

In the second case when we experience the “Light is really the Everything”, then Everything will be experienced as manifesting yet not moving. This is the experience of wholeness and completeness in an instantaneous moment or Eternity in a moment. When this experience becomes clear in practice, then witness is seen as the transience. Space and time will also collapse when we experience the completeness and wholeness of transience. An instantaneous moment of manifestation that is complete and whole in its own also does not involve movement and change (No changing thing, only change). Practicing being 'bare' in attention yet at the same time noticing the 3 characteristics will eventually bring us to this point.

However what has a yogi overcome when moving from case 1 to 2 and what exactly is the cause of separation in the first place? I think realizing this cause is of utmost importance for solving the paradox of realization and development.

...
If we are thus trapped in time, how can we escape? The paradoxical nondual solution is to eliminate the dichotomy dialectically by realizing that I am not in time because I am time, which therefore means that I am free from time.
Much of our difficulty in understanding
time is due to the unwise use of spatial metaphors -- in fact, the objectification of time requires such spatial metaphors -- but in this case another spatial metaphor is helpful. We normally understand objects such as cups to be "in" space, which (as explained above in relation to time) implies that in themselves they must have a self-existence distinct from space. However, not much reflection is necessary to realize that the cup itself is irremediably spatial. All its parts must have a certain thickness, and without the various spatial relations among the bottom, sides, and handle, the cup could not be a cup. Perhaps one way to express this is to say that the cup is not "in" space but itself is space: the cup is "what space is doing in that place," so to speak. The same is true for the temporality of the cup. The cup is not an atemporal, self-existing object that just happens to be "in" time, for its being is irremediably temporal. The point of this is to destroy the thought-constructed dualism between things and time. When we wish to express this, we must describe one in terms of the other, by saying either that objects are temporal (in which case they are not "objects" as we usually conceive of them) or, conversely, that time is objects -- that is, that time expresses itself in the manifestations that we call objects. Probably the clearest expression of this way is given by Dōgen: "The time we call spring blossoms directly as an existence called flowers. The flowers, in turn, express the time called spring. This is not existence within time; existence

p. 19

The Mahāyāna Deconstruction of Time

itself is time."[20] This is the meaning of his "being-time" (uji):

"Being-time" means that time is being; that is, "Time is existence, existence is time." The shape of a Buddha-statue is time.... Every thing, every being in this entire world is time.... Do not think of time as merely flying by; do not only study the fleeting aspect of time. If time is really flying away, there would be a separation between time and ourselves. If you think that time is just a passing phenomenon, you will never understand being-time.[21]

Time "flies away" when we experience it dualistically, with the sense of a self that is outside and looking at it. Then time becomes something that I have (or do not have), objectified and quantified in a succession of "now-moments" that cannot be held but incessantly fall away. In contrast, the "being-times" that we usually reify into objects cannot be said to occur in time, for they are time. As Nāgārjuna would put it, that things (or rather "thingings") are time means that there is no second, external time that they are "within."
This brings us to the second prong of the dialectic. To use the interdependence of objects and time to deny only the reality (svabhāva) of objects is incomplete, because their relativity also implies the unreality of time. Just as with the other dualities analyzed earlier in section II, to say that there is only time turns out to be equivalent to saying that there is no time. Having used temporality to deconstruct things, we must reverse the analysis and use the lack of a thing "in" time to negate the objectivity of time also: when there is no "contained," there can be no "container." If there are no nouns, then there can be no temporal predicates because they have no referent. When there are no things which have an existence apart from time, then it makes no sense to speak of" them" as being young or old: "so the young man does not grow old nor does the old man grow old" (Nāgārjuna).[22] Dōgen expressed this in terms of firewood and ashes:

... we should not take the view that what is latterly ashes was formerly firewood. What we should understand is that, according to the doctrine of Buddhism, firewood stays at the position of firewood.... There are former and later stages, but these stages are clearly cut.[23]

Firewood does not become ashes; rather, there is the "being-time" of firewood, then the "being-time" of ashes. But how does such "being-time" free us from time?

Similarly, when human beings die, they cannot return to life; but in Buddhist teaching we never say life changes into death.... Likewise, death cannot change into life.... Life and death have absolute existence, like the relationship of winter and spring. But do not think of winter changing into spring or spring into summer.[24]

Because life and death, like spring and summer, are not in time, they are in themselves timeless. If there is nobody who lives and dies, then there is no life and death -- or, alternatively, we may say that there is life-and-death in every moment, with the arising and disappearance of each thought, perception, and act. Perhaps this is what Heraclitus meant when he said that "both life and

p. 20

LOY

death are in both our living and dying."[25] Certainly it is what Dōgen meant when he wrote that we must realize that nirvāṇa is nothing other than life-and-death, for only then can we escape from life and death.

- Zen master David Loy, and Zen master Dogen http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../the-mahayana...


...

Ted Biringer says:

While it may be contrary to the suggestions of many that claim to represent Zen or Dogen, true nature, according to the classic Zen records (including Shobogenzo) is ever and always immediately present, particular, and precise. Noti
ons or assertions suggesting that Zen is somehow mysterious, ineffable, or inexpressible are simply off the mark. The only place such terms can be accurately applied in Zen is to definite mysteries, particular unknowns, and specific inexpressible experiences. Indeed, in Zen, the terms definite, particular, and specific accurately characterize all dharmas. Dogen’s refrain, ‘Nothing in the whole universe is concealed’ means exactly what it says; no reality is the least bit obscure or vague. To emphasize this truth, the assertion that ‘real form is all dharmas’ runs like a mantra throughout Shobogenzo, for example:

“The realization of the Buddhist patriarchs is perfectly realized real form. Real form is all dharmas. All dharmas are forms as they are, natures as they are, body as it is, the mind as it is, the world as it is, clouds and rain as they are, walking, standing, sitting, and lying down, as they are; sorrow and joy, movement and stillness, as they are; a staff and a whisk, as they are; a twirling flower and a smiling face, as they are; succession of the Dharma and affirmation, as they are; learning in practice and pursuing the truth, as they are; the constancy of pines and the integrity of bamboos, as they are. Shobogenzo, Shoho-Jisso[199]”

In light of Shobogenzo’s (hence Zen’s) vision of existence-time (uji), existence (ontology; being) and time are not-two (nondual); dharmas are not simply existents in time, they are existents of time, and (all) time is in and of existents (i.e. dharmas). In short, dharmas do not exist independent of time, and time does not exist independent of dharmas. On a corollary note, since (all) existence demonstrates the quality of ‘impermanence,’ time too is impermanent. In Zen the nonduality of impermanence and time is treated in terms of ‘ceaseless advance’ or ‘ever passing’ – ‘ceaseless’ and ‘ever’ connoting ‘permanence’ or ‘eternity,’
‘advance’ and ‘passing’ indicating ‘impermanence’ or ‘temporal’ (temporary). Accordingly, ‘impermanence’ is ‘permanent’ and ‘change’ is ‘changeless’ – existence-time ever-always (eternally) advances (changes).[92] Dogen’s vision of reality exploits the significance of this to the utmost, unfolding its most profound implications with his notion of ‘the self-obstruction of a single dharma’ or ‘the total exertion of a single dharma’ (ippo gujin). This notion reveals a number of important implications concerning the nature of existence-time; two of which are: Each and all dharmas reveal, disclose, or present the whole universe (the totality of existence-time). Each and all dharmas are inherently infinite and eternal.

Biringer, Ted. Zen Cosmology: Dogen's Contribution to the Search for a New Worldview (p. 34). ZazensatioN. Kindle Edition.


...

I am exploring the implications and ramifications of time, which is germane to the awareness of ‘being’. Through pure contemplation, awareness happens – not that there is an ‘I’ to be aware – awareness happens of itself. There is a realisation akin to that of ‘me’ having not happened yet ... and time seems to have come to a halt. As time stopping is patently absurd, it is worthy of further investigation. Time is an observable fact: the clock measures the hours, the day becomes night, a leaf falling from a tree takes time to reach the ground. Yet, psychologically speaking, does time exist? Many philosophers have said it does not, but I demur. Something does happen with time, subjectively, when this moment lives me – instead of ‘me’ living in the present – but what is it that happens? Is this moment actually timeless as some say that it is?

Time has no duration when the immediate is the ultimate and the relative is the absolute. This moment takes no interval at all to be here now. Thus it appears that it is as if nothing has occurred, for not only is the future not here, but the past does not exist either. If there is no beginning and no end, is there a middle? There are things happening, but nothing has happened or will happen … or so it seems. Only this moment exists. This moment has no term, it takes no time at all to occur … which gives rise to the inaccurate notion that it is timeless. This is an institutionalised delusion, for it stems from the egocentric feeling that ‘I’ am Immortal, that ‘I’ am Eternal.

Apperception – which is the mind’s perception of itself reveals that this moment is hanging in eternal time … just as this planet is hanging in infinite space. This moment and this place are in the realm of the infinitude of this actual physical universe. This moment is perennial, not timeless. I am perpetually here – for the term of my natural life – as this moment is; I am not Eternally Present. It is the universe that is eternal … not me. As one is the universe experiencing itself as a sensate human being, any ‘I’ - always on the look-out for self-aggrandisement – grabs the universe’s eternity for itself. Also, what helps to create the feeling that the present is timeless is that human beings – as an identity – are normally out of this universe’s eternal time. Yet time is as intimate as this body being here now at this moment. It is so intimate that I – as a body only – am not separate from it. Whereas ‘I’, as a human ‘being’, have separated ‘myself’ from eternal time by being an entity. To be an ontological ‘being’ is to mistakenly take this body being here as containing an ‘I’, a psychological or psychic entity. To ‘be’ is to take this moment of being alive personally … as being proof of ‘my’ subjective existence. ‘I’ am an illusion; if ‘I’ think and feel that ‘I’ do exist, then ‘I’ am outside of eternal time. ‘I’ am forever complaining that there is ‘not enough hours in the day’, or ‘I am always running out of time’, or ‘I am always catching up with time’, or ‘I am always behind time’. All this activity is considered ‘normal’, as it is the common experience of humankind. (...)

But I am supremely blasé about the opinion of others, for their ‘truths’ do not work ... they do not live in peace and tranquillity. They do not experience the perpetual purity of this moment of being alive; a purity welling-up in all directions from the vast, immeasurable stillness of the infinitude of this universe. They remain ignorant of the excellence of the absence of ‘being’. In short, their ‘truths’, their philosophies on life, do not work. The criterion of a fact is that it works, it produces results. Because I live here, where the immediate is the ultimate and the relative is the absolute, I have never known sorrow or malice. All my thoughts and deeds are benign, for maleficence does not exist where time has no duration.

By living the fact that ‘I’ am not actual, evil has ceased to be. Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Sixteen

- Actual Freedom Richard http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/.../selectedw.../sw-time.htm

There is something precious in living itself. Something beyond compare. Something more valuable than any “King’s ransom”. It is not rare gemstones; it is not singular works of art; it is not the much-prized bags of money; it is not the treasured loving relationships; it is not the highly esteemed Blissful States Of ‘Being’ ... ... it is not any of these things usually considered precious. There is something ultimately precious. It is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe … which is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. That something precious is me as-I-am ... me as I actually am as distinct from ‘me’ as ‘I’ really am. I am the universe’s experience of itself. The limpid and lucid perfection and purity of being here now, as-I-am, is akin to the crystalline perfection and purity seen in a dew-drop hanging from the tip of a leaf in the early-morning sunshine; the sunrise strikes the transparent dew-drop with its warming rays, highlighting the flawless correctness of the tear-drop shape with its bellied form. One is left almost breathless with wonder at the immaculate simplicity so exemplified ... and everyone I have spoken with has experienced this impeccable purity and perfection in some way or another at varying stages in their life. Is it not impossible to conceive – and just too difficult to imagine – that this is one’s essential character? One has to be daring enough to live it ... for it is both one’s audacious birth-right and adventurous destiny.

When one lives the magical perfection of this purity twenty-four-hours-a-day; when one has ceased being ‘I’ and is being genuine, one can see clearly that there is no separation between me and that something which is precious. The purity of life emerges from the perfection that wells up constantly due to an immense stillness which is utterly immense in its scope and magnitude. This stillness of infinitude is that something which is precious. It is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. This stillness happens as me. This stillness is my essential disposition, for it is the principle character, the intrinsic basis of everything. It is this universe at its genesis. It is not, as it might commonly be supposed, at the centre of everything ... there is no centre here. This stillness, which is everywhere all at once, is the be all and end all of life itself. I am the universe experiencing itself as a sensate, reflective human being. Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Twenty-five

- http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/.../sw-actualfreedom.htm


...

There is another perspective on time, which is from the perspective of dependent designation and emptiness. But I shall digress  
Shorter excerpt on my day to day experience based on the previous post:
That quality of Presence (that was first glimpsed and realized as in the I AM realization), is experienced constantly in everything now. Everything/the boundless world (and I mean the world of colors, shapes, textures, forms, sensations, sounds, tastes, smells, thought) are the opposite of dull and inert, they are vibrantly alive, dynamic, effervescent, sparkling, pulsating, amazing, marvellous, wondrous, magical, pure, perfect, vivid, brilliant, bright, luminous. All the qualities of Pristine Awareness once relegated to some ultimate Center of Being or some 'Absolute' is now instead fully experienced as purely the relative, as the relativity itself, as the Presencing (a better word than 'Presence' because as Dogen said, Buddha-nature is Impermanence, Presencing is not a static entity but the very unfolding) of the dynamic unfolding of each moment as the 'concrete' textures and forms of each manifestation, ever so 'concrete' and yet empty (of inherency), but fully luminous. Absolutely no background behind.
...
“yes.. i do have the answer to the meaning of life 🤣 but it is something everyone should discover, it's like everyone is sleeping on a pillow that has a precious diamond which people didn't notice and so they live in poverty and misery. it's not like i have it and you don't
what i can describe is in my day to day living, as it is seen that there is no 'I' as a seer, feeler, thinker, an agent an 'self' entity residing inside the body somewhere relating to an outside world, my experience is now constantly a state of non-division, there has not been a trace of the sense of self as a separate entity, no sense of separation at all, no sense of being an agent or a self..
what is experienced in the absence of a 'self' is a very marvellous, wondrous, vivid, alive world that is full of intense vividness, joy, clarity, vitality, and an intelligence that is operating as every spontaneous action (there is no sense of being a doer). there is a perfection and purity pervading everything in all directions... even the fly is marvellous, is beyond beautiful, it is perfection and pure. there is no negative emotions, no getting hung up in hopes and fears, only perfection and purity
by intensity i mean everything is literally sparkling with brilliance, a vividness, an aliveness, even the trees feel alive, the earth feels alive, and of course every cell of the body feels alive, this aliveness is not in any way bounded by a sense of self and there is no sense of separation with the whole universe. everything literally feels bright, luminous, and wonderful... like the sky is bluer than blue, the sound of raindrops are delightful and vivid, the smells and aromas... all the senses are heightened, intense, vivid. it's like being constantly on a psychedelic drug like ecstasy or LSD except sober and with no negative side-effects or mental impairments. this is not an altered state of consciousness, it is what consciousness is supposed to be experienced, it is what consciousness/the world is in its state of primordial purity. it is like someone who is blind is said to have a more acute sense of hearing as their attention is unhindered by the details of sight... all the five senses and even thoughts are experienced in its naturally heightened luminous intensity when the contracted energy of the illusion of being a 'self' is seen through and dissolved
this universe being experienced without a 'self' is experienced as centerless (no me at the center looking out at the world outside of myself), and boundless (literally immense, large, so large that it is infinite without boundaries), and there is a constant marvelling at the infinitude of the universe being experienced afresh at every moment in vivid clarity, such that life is never dull or boring, but is experienced and expressed to the fullest intensity and joy at each moment as if each moment is like the first time you are experiencing life, that sort of feeling of amazement at seeing a wonderful scenery for the first time in your life or experiencing something new in your life.. that amazement can become constant.
there is also not the slightest sense of a distance, for example, when looking at the 'faraway' tree or building, it is as if you are there, as if the tree or the building is closer than your heartbeat and your breath.. literally no distance at all. it is as if you are the whole world rather than merely an onlooker of the whole world, except even that is not quite correct, there is no 'you' yet there is a gapless intimacy with every person, thing and event, closer than close
the luminous world experienced in no-self and no-separation and in its infinitude is the meaning of life being revealed each moment again.. it is truly living life to the fullest without holding back, it is liberating, it is utmost joy and perfection.
i have been living like this for 8+ years but this year the enlightened state has deepened immensely. and i am far from the only one experiencing this
it is possible that after reading this you may suddenly remember having had a glimpse of this before... while watching the sunset, looking at nature, listening to music, dancing to the music... that moment of enjoying something so fully until the sense of self dissolves into the perfection of that moment of experience (of the sunset, the tree, the music, the dance...) and life and the world reveals a vivid wonderful intensity. most people can recall at least having such glimpses before, often spontaneously, but for me it is a constant state after realising and penetrating the illusion of 'self' thoroughly.
so yeah highly recommended 10/10. life is not meant to be lived in a state of misery
...
I enjoy describing my experience of life/universe that is experienced like a fairy tale like paradise, where the universe, even the trees and birds and sky take on an ambience of being like a wonderland, like you are in heaven. Paradise is not far away for anyone but here and now as this moment in time and place in space.. so life is lived abundantly by living and enjoying the here and now rather than in the clouds of illusion (primarily the mentally projected illusion of being a separate self, alienated, separated, fearful and lonely by being cut off from the actual world) along with “my problems” of the past and future, the obsessive thoughts and anxieties can be ended. Practical thoughts arise when necessary but most of the time there are no thoughts. This is why i recommend “the power of now” by eckhart tolle for a start as it has practical and meditative pointers tho there is more to it”
(Comments: However, Eckhart Tolle only leads to I AM, not Anatta
Also grounding to the here and now to experience Presence more vividly is more of a skillful means for beginners, for me there is not even such an effort or a place of grounding, it is all so natural and spontaneous)
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"The eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there. The ear is not the fetter of sounds... The nose is not the fetter of aromas... The tongue is not the fetter of flavors... The body is not the fetter of tactile sensations... The intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the intellect. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there." -- Buddha, SN 35.191 (PTS: S IV 162) 

"My son, we are not bound by appearances; we are bound by our clinging to them." - Tilopa to Naropa

"The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.
What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.
Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.
Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.
Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.
There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation." - Yang Gönpa
 
 
 
 
update: for further reading, read these three suttas.

Astus: There is no consciousness apart from the aggregates (SN 22.53). It's not appearances but clinging that causes suffering (SN 35.191), and when there is no clinging, nirvana is attained in this life (SN 35.118). - https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=36909&p=587939&hilit=CLINGING#p587939


To Koṭṭhita

Koṭṭhita Sutta  (SN 35:191)

NavigationSuttas/SN/35:191

Once, Ven. Sāriputta and Ven. Mahā Koṭṭhita were

staying near Vārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. Then Ven. Mahā

Koṭṭhita, in the evening, left his seclusion and went to Ven. Sāriputta.

On arrival, he exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an

exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As

he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Sāriputta, “Now tell me, friend

Sāriputta, is the eye the fetter of forms, or are forms the fetter of

the eye? Is the ear… Is the nose… Is the tongue… Is the body… Is the

intellect the fetter of ideas, or are ideas the fetter of the

intellect?”

“No, my friend. The eye is not the fetter of forms, nor

are forms the fetter of the eye. Whatever desire-passion arises in

dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there. The ear is not

the fetter of sounds… The nose is not the fetter of aromas… The tongue

is not the fetter of flavors… The body is not the fetter of tactile

sensations… The intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the

fetter of the intellect. Whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on

the two of them: That is the fetter there.

“Suppose that a black ox and a white ox were joined

with a single collar or yoke. If someone were to say, ‘The black ox is

the fetter of the white ox, the white ox is the fetter of the

black’—speaking this way, would he be speaking rightly?”

“No, my friend. The black ox is not the fetter of the

white ox, nor is the white ox the fetter of the black. The single collar

or yoke by which they are joined: That is the fetter there.”

“In the same way, the eye is not the fetter of forms,

nor are forms the fetter of the eye. Whatever desire-passion arises in

dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there. The ear is not

the fetter of sounds…The nose is not the fetter of aromas…The tongue is

not the fetter of flavors…The body is not the fetter of tactile

sensations… The intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the

fetter of the intellect. Whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on

the two of them: That is the fetter there.

“If the eye were the fetter of forms, or if forms were

the fetter of the eye, then this holy life for the right ending of

stress & suffering would not be proclaimed. But because whatever

desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of them is the fetter

there, that is why this holy life for the right ending of stress &

suffering is proclaimed.

“If the ear were the fetter…

“If the nose were the fetter…

“If the tongue were the fetter…

“If the body were the fetter…

“If the intellect were the fetter of ideas, or if ideas

were the fetter of the intellect, then this holy life for the right

ending of stress & suffering would not be proclaimed. But because

whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of them is the

fetter there, that is why this holy life for the right ending of stress

& suffering is proclaimed.

“And through this line of reasoning one may know how

the eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye,

but whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of them:

That is the fetter there. The ear is not the fetter of sounds… The nose

is not the fetter of aromas… The tongue is not the fetter of flavors…

The body is not the fetter of tactile sensations… The intellect is not

the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the intellect, but

whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is

the fetter there. There is an eye in the Blessed One. The Blessed One

sees forms with the eye. There is no desire or passion in the Blessed

One. The Blessed One is well released in mind.

“There is an ear in the Blessed One…

“There is a nose in the Blessed One…

“There is a tongue in the Blessed One…

“There is a body in the Blessed One…

“There is an intellect in the Blessed One. The Blessed

One knows ideas with the intellect. There is no desire or passion in the

Blessed One. The Blessed One is well released in mind.

“It is through this line of reasoning that one may know

how the eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the

eye, but whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of

them: That is the fetter there. The ear is not the fetter of sounds… The

nose is not the fetter of aromas… The tongue is not the fetter of

flavors… The body is not the fetter of tactile sensations… The intellect

is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the intellect,

but whatever desire-passion arises in dependence on the two of them:

That is the fetter there.”

See also: SN 22:48; SN 27:1–10

  • Linked Discourses 22

  • 6. Involvement

53. Involvement

At Sāvatthī.

“Mendicants, if you’re involved, you’re not free. If you’re not involved, you’re free.

As

long as consciousness remains, it would remain involved with form,

supported by form, founded on form. And with a sprinkle of relishing, it

would grow, increase, and mature.

Or consciousness would remain involved with feeling …

Or consciousness would remain involved with perception …

Or

as long as consciousness remains, it would remain involved with

choices, supported by choices, grounded on choices. And with a sprinkle

of relishing, it would grow, increase, and mature.

Mendicants, suppose you say: ‘Apart

from form, feeling, perception, and choices, I will describe the coming

and going of consciousness, its passing away and reappearing, its

growth, increase, and maturity.’ That is not possible.

If a mendicant has given up greed for the form element, the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for consciousness.

If a mendicant has given up greed for the feeling element …

perception element …

choices element …

consciousness element, the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for consciousness. Since that consciousness does not become established and does not grow, with no power to regenerate, it is freed.

Being

free, it’s stable. Being stable, it’s content. Being content, they’re

not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.

They

understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been

completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any

state of existence.’”

Linked Discourses 35

  • 12. The World and the Kinds of Sensual Stimulation

118. The Question of Sakka

At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, on the Vulture’s Peak Mountain. And then Sakka, lord of gods, went up to the Buddha, bowed, stood to one side, and said to him:

“What is the cause, sir, what is the reason why some sentient beings aren’t fully extinguished in the present life? What is the cause, what is the reason why some sentient beings are fully extinguished in the present life?”

“Lord of gods, there are sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant approves, welcomes, and keeps clinging to them, their consciousness relies on that and grasps it. A mendicant with grasping does not become extinguished.

There are sounds … smells … tastes … touches … thoughts known by the mind that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant approves, welcomes, and keeps clinging to them, their consciousness relies on that and grasps it. A mendicant with grasping does not become extinguished. That’s the cause, that’s the reason why some sentient beings aren’t fully extinguished in the present life.

There are sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant doesn’t approve, welcome, and keep clinging to them, their consciousness doesn’t rely on that and grasp it. A mendicant free of grasping becomes extinguished.

There are sounds … smells … tastes … touches … thoughts known by the mind that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant doesn’t approve, welcome, and keep clinging to them, their consciousness doesn’t rely on that and grasp it. A mendicant free of grasping becomes extinguished. That’s the cause, that’s the reason why some sentient beings are fully extinguished in the present life.”

Good video by Angelo Gerangelo



Just now I went for yoga and meditation session. Then after that I went out for a walk. (I really enjoy walks nowadays, very meditative) Then I feel very very peaceful.. the luminosity of anatta and total exertion is clear as usual (has become a completely effortless natural state) but not heavy.. instead there is a sensation of lightness like floating. Everything is appearing but not truly there, there is no grasping, like falling snow that melts even before landing.

Anyway I was reminded of a verse by the arahant Khitaka in the Theragatha:

“How light my body!
Touched by abundant
rapture & bliss,
—like a cotton tuft
borne on the breeze—
it seems to be floating
—my body!”

Post anatta (or even before actually), this advice by John Tan (Thusness) is important - “be light as a feather, immense as the universe”

Angelo wrote: "Beautiful. Also by JT: “You have to fully and completely replace the mind that wants to understand with the mind that wants to live!”

Thanks for post 🙏"

 
(Join the Awakening to Reality Facebook Discussion Group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/
Join the Awakening to Reality Facebook Discussion Group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/

This is a facebook group based on the blog Awakening to Reality. For newcomers who are new to the blog, please read this article for a basic understanding of what this group is about and the terms we use: Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

Any member of this group can invite anyone who might benefit from joining this group.

The purpose of this discussion group is to facilitate any discussions about the contents of the blog. Also, if anyone has questions, or requests for any guidance, my hope is that someone else more experienced can serve as a guide to him/her.

I am in part inspired by what Liberation Unleashed has been doing - direct pointing has successfully led many people to have certain breakthroughs in their realization. Due to time constraints I am unable to do personal 1 on 1 pointing and guidance for everyone who contacts me through the blog, but I trust that many in this group have the capacity to help others who need help.

I was heartened to hear from Angelo Gerangelo (who personally went through similar progression i.e. I AM to non dual, anatta and total exertion) today, who told me that someone he knew "...took 20 years to break Mu. That’s 20 years to I Am. I personally think that cannot be blamed on the student but on the clarity of the teaching. If someone wants to wake up and is willing to work at it sincerely I take 200% responsibility to show them exactly how it is possible. That’s on me. Doing the work is on them."

It is thus my wish that this group serve as a place to facilitate any sort of constructive discussions that can be of benefit to one's spiritual growth.

However, unlike Liberation Unleashed, the scope of this group is *not* limited to direct pointing only, as other forms of discussions related to the blog contents are also welcome.

Another point - earlier on Piotr wrote about keeping this group focused on direct pointings to anatta, dependent origination and emptiness - although those are certainly part of the 'scope of discussions' for this group. I'm going to broaden the scope of this group a bit, to include everything the blog talks about, including self enquiry and I AM realization, and other topics like karmic tendencies, so on and so forth.

Rules -

As a general guideline only: Please keep discussions constructive, try to keep idle talks to a minimum, and it is a rule that no personal attacks are welcomed here (please be kind to each other).


-------------

Lately more people have been contacting us. I just wrote to someone who wanted to meet up with Thusness and I:






That should get you started. Any further discussions it will be best if we can take it to https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/ 😊



Also, I do not buy into the old model of guru. I do not buy into the model that teaches a need for “surrendering to the guru”. Some people find that helpful, that’s fine, but it is not necessary for enlightenment. I prefer the modern (actually not so modern – it is so even in the days of early Buddhism) model of spiritual friendship as explained by Greg Goode: https://greg-goode.com/article/from-the-age-of-the-guru-to-the-age-of-the-friend/



Which is also why the Awakening to Reality group is a good one, as Daniel M. Ingram wrote:

"the collective wisdom of a group of strong practitioners at various stages and from various traditions and backgrounds is often better than following one guru-type".

(Update/Clarification: I'm not discouraging anyone from finding and following a guru. If you can find a good teacher or guru, that can be of great help to your practice and progression as I can attest that my progression is possible due to my ongoing discussion with Thusness/John Tan, however I do not have any wish to be a guru and do not have time to be in close contact with anyone. Collective wisdom from group discussions are often times better than just receiving the wisdom of one guru-type person - but you can certainly benefit and receive wisdom from both a good guru and a group.)

I am not a teacher, and Thusness does not wish to teach. We are people with a busy life and job/work/friends/family. We do not hold teachings, satsangs, meet ups (Thusness has not participated in any spiritual gatherings for many years and only meets me a few times a year), retreats, and so on. We are not monks nor do we work at a spiritual organization to propagate teachings. It is not realistic given our circumstances to be in frequent contact with “followers” and to be giving personal guidance to others. Hence, an online community of like-minded practitioners (some of whom are deeply realized and have gone through similar realizations) is more helpful in this case.


p.s. if anyone is able to translate Thusness's Seven Stages to other languages, that will be great, do let me know. In the past I've translated it to Chinese along with a short verse from Bahiya Sutta and posted that in a forum in China, and that alone resulted in a Chinese forummer coming to the realization of anatta (previously he was in the I AM stage). By translating these to other languages, more people can become awakened.

[9:40 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Now I’m walking.. absolutely no self /Self/agency at all.. and the pce [i.e. the vivid radiance of anatta that 'makes' everything like a wondrous paradise is now my unbroken state] is still there as before but the main characteristic that stands out now is not the radiance but the walking is just infinitude of the universe as the seamless activity.. in the absence of an agent/self/Self there is just this

[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: [And also the experience comes with a] Very still mind.. except when writing this
[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes don't focus, relax and be light. No self, no center. Don't over do. Learn a somatic technique.
[9:52 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: yea this cosmic sense of centerless ness is different from focused kind of pce.. it’s like pce is already natural here and makes no sense to focus more.. the cosmic sense of Maha does not require focusing but complete opening without self/Self/agent... it created no tension in my head at all
[9:55 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Just centerless and without background, light and immense. No focus no concentration. Natural and free.
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: And master a somatic technique to release ur body and any form of energy imbalance.


.........


Update, wrote to someone:



"It is good you are seeing the fabrications working together to shape a dualistic experience. That is seeing the afflictive dependent origination, seeing that selfing-activity, duality, grasping as the very activity that dependently originates. Therefore there is no self/Self/agent, but there is the afflictive sense of self, grasping and reification in action. There is no actor but there is action, be it afflictive or non-afflictive.. it is not an agent giving rise to afflictive activities but afflictive activities giving rise to selfing through dependent arising


As for total exertion and maha, that is more on the non-afflictive side of dependent origination, the general principle of dependent origination. You will see that the +A expressions are all over in Dogen's writings, whereas the Mahamudra/Tibetan tends to emphasize more on -A.


I started having mini glimpses of total exertionas early as 2011 but only had very clear experiences of it beginning in 2013 where I wrote about dharma body - https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2013/09/dharma-body_7.html -- where even the walking activity is as immense and boundless as the whole universe, a seamless activity of mind-body-universe.


John Tan used the word Maha and Total Exertion to describe this, it is about totality. Maha means great, but it is not big vs small, but great without boundaries. Immense as the universe. As he often said, be light as feather but immense as the universe.


Nowadays the infinitude of maha total exertion has become a natural, effortless state as an ongoing experience. When you are doubtless and stabilized anatta, you must mature your insight and experience in this direction.


That Maha total exertion must become a natural state, as written in https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html -


"A week ago, the clear experience of Maha dawned and became quite effortless and at the same time there is a direct realization that it is also a natural state. In Sunyata, Maha is natural and must be fully factored into the path of experiencing whatever arises. Nevertheless Maha as a ground state requires the maturing of non-dual experience; we cannot feel entirely as the interconnectedness of everything coming spontaneously into being as this moment of vivid manifestation with a divided mind.


The universe is this arising thought.

The universe is this arising sound.

Just this magnificent arising!

Is Tao.

Homage to all arising."


Even if you see the Actual Freedom teachings, there are two stages of actual freedom.


1) The basic, newly-free actual freedom is characterized by the lack of separative identity, feeling-being, magical and wonderful luminosity as actual time and form,


"On the woven table mat my attention was drawn to a dark blue plastic cigarette lighter, an empty glass, a tobacco pouch and other sundry items. All of a sudden, Richard’s phrase “the actual world of people, things and events” came to mind and I found myself acknowledging that the things on the table existed in actuality, i.e. did in fact actually exist, and this being the case, here I was waving my hand in front of “people”, in this case Richard, saying that I experienced him as if behind a veil, i.e. not actually existing. It took only a few more seconds of switching my attention from the things on the table and my waving hand for the whole illusion of a separating veil to collapse – along with my illusory self-centred identity as I was gradually becoming aware of.


The whole experience was like a seamless transition between two worlds – from being a feeling being trapped within an illusionary all-encompassing self-created and sustained bubble to being here in the actual world. There was no dramatic end for ‘me’, no death-like traumatic experience, no prior psychic events or escapades, no “wall of fear”, no “abyss” – rather there was a profound experience of sweetness, a ready acknowledgement of my destiny and a final understanding that the feeling of separateness was nothing other than an illusion of ‘my’ own making." - Peter


"There was no fear, no experience of death, no physical phenomena or changes, just the realization that I have always been here in this eternal moment in time, in this luminous magical world, more naked than I was born and utterly safe... ...The next morning was the real test – I half-expected that I had reverted back to normal but the world was just as brilliant, beneficial and wunderbar as I had experienced it the night before. I am still surprised how easy it all turned out to be in the end." - Vineeto


This is why I asked how thorough are you experiencing the 2nd stanza.. as well as the intensity of luminosity as vivid form, this is important as well in addition for the aspect of no agent. But from what you messaged me it you are already experiencing that aspect well at the moment.


2) The Fully Free actual freedom characterized by permanent experience of infinitude [not just glimpses] that comes soon after the loss of social identity (from what I understand from that website, that includes views, impinging on what actions to take and interpretations of one's pure experience including of that infinitude, sometimes subtly interpreting it wrongly or in terms of metaphysical essence based on the convo of Vineeto with a newly-free person) - to me what I see as more crucial is that the view aspect must be clear. This is also related to the example of the video by Leo on Actualized.org describes the Maha Total Exertion glimpses in 5-Meo-DMT trip, but he is still having view of inherent existence, and misinterpreting that infinitude in terms of metaphysicality in the same way that Vineeto discussed with another guy. With that social identity or 'shadow being' in place, it prevents the permanent experience of infinitude.


But that is how AF expresses or interpretes. For you, you just need to be clear on anatta and D.O., that will lead to effortless Maha/total exertion. There must not be desync of view and experience, otherwise it will be a hindrance.


But the progression is quite similar -- means anatta in two stanza stabilized, then glimpses of maha total exertion, then a shift into permanent total exertion. But AF lacks emptiness.


As John Tan wrote previously, “Richard's experience is not different from total exertion. However his actual view will be restricting him imo.”


.....


As Vineeto (who has become almost like a successor or Richard at the moment, being the first fully free person besides Richard himself, and I think is currently living with Richard) wrote:


VINEETO: Yes, the definite moment of becoming fully free happened on October 12, 2010.


And yes, "the experiences and investigation around those interactions constituted the bulk of the ‘many more things’."


To refresh my memory I checked what I wrote to Tarin in November 2010 about this period after the abdication of the guardian –


[Vineeto]: Frequent interactions with Richard quite often resulted in glimpses of a greater depth to an actual freedom and at the time I called them windows into purity. Both Richard and I had noticed that when I described how I experienced myself, words such as the ‘immaculate purity’ and ‘pristine limpidness’ where not part of my vocabulary and, except for a few occasional glimpses, neither did I mention in my description experiencing the infinitude of this spatially infinite, temporally eternal and perpetually forming and changing universe, whereas Richard has described his experience of an actual freedom in such glowing terms like in one of my favourite excerpts from his journal –


[Richard]: "There is something precious in living itself. Something beyond compare. Something more valuable than any "King’s ransom". It is not rare gemstones; it is not singular works of art; it is not the much-prized bags of money; it is not the treasured loving relationships; it is not the highly esteemed Blissful States Of ‘Being’ ... ... it is not any of these things usually considered precious. There is something ultimately precious. It is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe … which is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. That something precious is me as-I-am ... me as I actually am as distinct from ‘me’ as ‘I’ really am. I am the universe’s experience of itself. The limpid and lucid perfection and purity of being here now, as-I-am, is akin to the crystalline perfection and purity seen in a dew-drop hanging from the tip of a leaf in the early-morning sunshine; the sunrise strikes the transparent dew-drop with its warming rays, highlighting the flawless correctness of the tear-drop shape with its bellied form. One is left almost breathless with wonder at the immaculate simplicity so exemplified ... and everyone I have spoken with has experienced this impeccable purity and perfection in some way or another at varying stages in their life. Is it not impossible to conceive – and just too difficult to imagine – that this is one’s essential character? One has to be daring enough to live it ... for it is both one’s audacious birth-right and adventurous destiny.


When one lives the magical perfection of this purity twenty-four-hours-a-day; when one has ceased being ‘I’ and is being genuine, one can see clearly that there is no separation between me and that something which is precious. The purity of life emerges from the perfection that wells up constantly due to an immense stillness which is utterly immense in its scope and magnitude. This stillness of infinitude is that something which is precious. It is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. This stillness happens as me. This stillness is my essential disposition, for it is the principle character, the intrinsic basis of everything. It is this universe at its genesis. It is not, as it might commonly be supposed, at the centre of everything ... there is no centre here. This stillness, which is everywhere all at once, is the be all and end all of life itself. I am the universe experiencing itself as a sensate, reflective human being." Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Twenty-five


In the early months of this year [2010] I had plenty of opportunity to read Richard’s words describing the outstanding quality of an actual freedom while I was updating the website, replacing all footnotes with the new format of tool-tips and I became starkly aware of the vast gap of experiencing between his descriptions and my own experience of myself and the world around me."


After the abdication of the guardian I was one day ready to allow myself to fully (and permanently) experience the spatial infinitude of the universe. Here is the description of what happened –


[Vineeto]: "The next significant event happened a week after my completion [the abdication of the guardian]. It began with an eerie sensation in the head as if my brain was being operated on whilst being fully conscious. After about 15 minutes or so there was a sensation as if my brain was being scattered throughout the universe. When I recovered from the experience itself enough to find out what actually happened, I noticed that I had lost my centre of reference (a discovery that left me quite disconcerted for about 2 weeks). Richard reported that in the days before he was able to existentially sense me as being close, very close, right in front of his eyes, so to speak, but that after this event he has been no longer able to sense me existentially. The direct result of losing the boundaries of my localized reference during this ‘brain-scattering’ event is that I am permanently apperceptively aware of the infinitude of the universe as infinite space, eternal time and perpetual matter." Private letter to Tarin, November 29, 2010


I remember a similar profound disorientation (for a short period of time) after allowing to fully understand and experience the temporal infinitude of the universe.


So, lots of adventures and discoveries are still to come after becoming newly free." - Soh, 2019


“Now it’s very clear that the whole universe is the total exertion of all conditions in spatial and temporal infinitude.. each activity is the exertion of all the conditions in ten directions and three times.” - Soh, 2019


“There are few conditions to experience maha as a ground [state] (Soh: means effortlessly experienced in all situations as always already so)


1. Mature in non-dual experience

2. DO (dependent origination)

3.  Experience and understand that 'interconnectedness' is the universe itself


Then 'self' and even non dual becomes quite irrelevant. In fact now presence is not understand as non-dual to me, but as dependent origination, where non-dual is already included” - John Tan, 2009


If Maha Total Exertion (+A) has become a ground state, effortlessly so and clear, you have to ask yourself is the taste of -A present? Or as John Tan asked, “Do you know what does landing without dust mean? 落地无尘,踏雪无痕 (falling to the floor without dust [accumulating], stepping on snow without leaving trails)”


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